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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Apr, 2007 03:07 pm
I'll just refer you to the MANY postings by hurricane experts that are already on the thread, Walter.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Apr, 2007 03:10 pm
Well ... "the hurricane experts are mostly not concurring with that at all".

Thanks, Foxfyre.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Apr, 2007 03:42 pm
You're welcome Walter. (My intent was not to imply that the hurricane experts posted on the thread, but there have been many postings of articles or opinions written by hurricane experts that have been posted over many months.)
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Apr, 2007 04:40 pm
Its hard to take the global warming crowd seriously when their self appointed leader,Al Gore,says that man may have only 10 years left to save the world.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/25/AR2006012502230.html

Quote:
He's palling around with Larry David of "Curb Your Enthusiasm," who says, "Al is a funny guy." But he is also a very serious guy who believes humans may have only 10 years left to save the planet from turning into a total frying pan.


If thats the case,why are we having this discussion?
Its not possible to reverse the supposed effects in 10 years.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Apr, 2007 09:15 pm
It seems pertinent to post the meaning of a word here:

fanatic: - A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Apr, 2007 09:14 am
If Al Gore is an fanatic, I guess that the vast majority of climate scientists may be so described. Gore has done an invaluable job in publicizing a very important point of view. As usual, conservatives activate their swift-boating attacks on anything or anyone who is viewed as liberal.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Apr, 2007 10:00 am
It's a very biased point of view. It's hard to discount opposing professional views and evidence that Gore's "science" just isn't right.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Apr, 2007 10:43 am
Advocate wrote:
If Al Gore is an fanatic, I guess that the vast majority of climate scientists may be so described. Gore has done an invaluable job in publicizing a very important point of view. As usual, conservatives activate their swift-boating attacks on anything or anyone who is viewed as liberal.


If anyone thinks we have only 10 years left, I think that person is a fanatic. How many predicitions of doom have been made along those lines in the past, and we are still alive and well, a long time after the predictions time lines.

I do not believe all those climate scientists believe as Al Gore does.

"Swift boaters" are only correcting the record. Sorry it bursts your balloon.
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Apr, 2007 10:51 am
Advocate wrote:
Gore has done an invaluable job in publicizing a very important point of view.

I agree, what he has done is publicizing an important pov. An important but bogus pov. Like food manufacturer publicizing the efficiency of their fat trimming diets.

Here are some points that are plainly WRONG in his film. You can reject the credibility of the author if you like, but you can easily check if these critiques or justified or not. Check Al Gore numbers & facts then check the science's numbers & fact. Very easy.

List of Al Gore's distorsions in An Inconvenient Truth
"
Claims Thompson's reconstruction of climate history proves the Medieval
Warm Period was "tiny" compared to the warming observed in recent
decades. It doesn't. Four of Thompson's six ice cores indicate that several
decades of the Medieval Warm Period were as warm as or warmer than any
recent decade.

Calls carbon dioxide the "most important greenhouse gas." Water vapor is the
leading contributor to the greenhouse effect.

Claims Venus is too hot and Mars too cold to support life due to differences in
atmospheric CO2 concentrations (they are nearly identical), rather than
differences in atmospheric densities and distances from the Sun (both huge).

Claims scientists have validated the "Hockey Stick" climate reconstruction,
according to which the 1990s were likely the warmest decade of the past
millennium and 1998 the warmest year. It is now widely acknowledged that
the Hockey Stick was built on a flawed methodology and inappropriate data.
Scientists continue to debate whether the Medieval Warm period was warmer
than recent decades.

Assumes that CO2 levels are increasing at roughly 1 percent annually. The
actual rate is half that.

Assumes a linear relationship between CO2 levels and global temperatures,
whereas the actual CO2-warming effect is logarithmic, meaning that the next
100-ppm increase adds less heat than the previous 100-ppm increase.
Claims the rate of global warming is accelerating, whereas the rate has been
constant for the past 30 years?-roughly 0.17°C/decade.

Blames global warming for Europe's killer heat wave of 2003?-an event
caused by an atmospheric circulation anomaly.

Blames global warming for Hurricane Catarina, the first South Atlantic
hurricane on record, which struck Brazil in 2004. Catarina formed not because
the South Atlantic was unusually warm (sea temperatures were cooler than
normal), but because the air was so much colder it produced the same kind of
heat flux from the ocean that fuels hurricanes in warmer waters.

Claims that 2004 set an all-time record for the number of tornadoes in the
United States. Tornado frequency has not increased; rather, the detection of
smaller tornadoes has increased. If we consider the tornadoes that have been
detectable for many decades (F-3 or greater), there is actually a downward
trend since 1950.

Blames global warming for a "mass extinction crisis" that is not, in fact,
occurring.

Blames global warming for the rapid coast-to-coast spread of the West Nile
virus. North America contains nearly all the climate types in the world?-from
hot, dry deserts to boreal forests, to frigid tundra?-a range that dwarfs any
small alteration in temperature or precipitation that may be related to
atmospheric CO2 levels. The virus could not have spread so far so fast, if it
were climate-sensitive.

Cites Tuvalu, Polynesia, as a place where rising sea levels force residents to
evacuate their homes. In reality, sea levels at Tuvalu fell during the latter
of the 20 th century and even during the 1990s, allegedly the warmest decade
of the millennium.

Claims sea level rise could be many times larger and more rapid "depending on the choices we make or do not make now" concerning global warming. Not so. The most aggressive choice America could make now would be to join Europe in implementing the Kyoto Protocol. A leading climate modeler
estimates the treaty would avert only 1 cm of sea level rise by 2050 and 2.5 cm by 2100.

Accuses Exxon Mobil of running a "disinformation campaign" designed to
"reposition global warming as theory, rather than fact," even though two
clicks of the mouse reveal that Exxon Mobil acknowledges global warming as a fact.

Claims Bush hired Phil Cooney to "be in charge" of White House
environmental policy. This must be a surprise to White House Council on
Environmental Quality Chairman James Connaughton, who hired Cooney and was his boss at the CEQ.

Claims the European Union's emission trading system (ETS) is working
"effectively." In fact, the ETS is not reducing emissions and operates as a
wealth transfer scheme.
"
Source
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Apr, 2007 10:56 am
okie wrote:
If anyone thinks we have only 10 years left, I think that person is a fanatic.
Al Gore is just parroting the Chief Alarmist, James Hansen, director of the GISS (NASA), "inventor" of the 10 year deadline et the "tipping point".

I don't know if Al Gore is fanatic but what is sure is he is a deadly hypocrite. If he really thinks we have only 10 years left, he wouldn't consume 20x the energy of an average American household in he sole Tennesee house (he has several mansions). This guy is a crook, for sure. A crook panicking because his dirty tricks is beeing discovered (Kyoto is unravelling, sea rise is NOT accelerating, the Earth is cooling since 1998, no new Katrina, the Chindians couldn't care less about CO2 ...)
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Apr, 2007 11:21 am
miniTAX, thanks for enumerating all the errors in Gore's documentary. For myself, the claims were so fantastic that basically I didn't care to bother to even examine the claims and identify all the errors, as they are just obvious to the most casual honest observer, but your work on it is appreciated. It is amazing that Gore's film is being shown all over the country here in classrooms as honest science. No wonder the kids are all indoctrinated with this stuff, and then the level headed people are left with the job of trying to undo all this disinformation, which is not an easy thing to do. Gore has not done a service by bringing attention to this, he has done very serious damage to the science and the educational system. Instead of doing honest science, we are left with trying to combat all of this propaganda.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Apr, 2007 11:27 am
okie wrote:
For myself, the claims were so fantastic that basically I didn't care to bother to even examine the claims and identify all the errors, as they are just obvious to the most casual honest observer, but your work on it is appreciated. It is amazing that Gore's film is being shown all over the country here in classrooms as honest science.



Obviously those who decide(d) that aren't such well educated persons as you are.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Apr, 2007 11:38 am
Thanks for the dig, Walter. Well, I do happen to know a few teachers, and in regard to elementary and high school, many just sort of go with the flow, whatever is popular, and I will not deny the movement, including Gore's message, is popular among a large segment of the population. I mean all the little kiddees want to save the earth, its creatures, and celebrate "mother earth." After all, they grow up watching talking animals and documentaries on evil corporations.
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Apr, 2007 11:45 am
okie wrote:
Thanks for the dig, Walter. Well, I do happen to know a few teachers, and in regard to elementary and high school, many just sort of go with the flow, whatever is popular, and I will not deny the movement, including Gore's message, is popular among a large segment of the population. I mean all the little kiddees want to save the earth, its creatures, and celebrate "mother earth." After all, they grow up watching talking animals and documentaries on evil corporations.


Aw, I don't know. The Walt Disney Company was founded in 1923... so I would guess that you grew up with talking animals and documentaries, too. And it certainly didn't affect you.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Apr, 2007 11:52 am
miniTAX wrote:
okie wrote:
If anyone thinks we have only 10 years left, I think that person is a fanatic.
Al Gore is just parroting the Chief Alarmist, James Hansen, director of the GISS (NASA), "inventor" of the 10 year deadline et the "tipping point".

I don't know if Al Gore is fanatic but what is sure is he is a deadly hypocrite. If he really thinks we have only 10 years left, he wouldn't consume 20x the energy of an average American household in he sole Tennesee house (he has several mansions). This guy is a crook, for sure. A crook panicking because his dirty tricks is beeing discovered (Kyoto is unravelling, sea rise is NOT accelerating, the Earth is cooling since 1998, no new Katrina, the Chindians couldn't care less about CO2 ...)



Apparently Gore's house only uses energy generated from methods that do not generate CO2 (wind, solar, etc). I heard him make this statement during his congressional visit on C-span a few weeks ago.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Apr, 2007 11:59 am
maporsche wrote:
miniTAX wrote:
okie wrote:
If anyone thinks we have only 10 years left, I think that person is a fanatic.
Al Gore is just parroting the Chief Alarmist, James Hansen, director of the GISS (NASA), "inventor" of the 10 year deadline et the "tipping point".

I don't know if Al Gore is fanatic but what is sure is he is a deadly hypocrite. If he really thinks we have only 10 years left, he wouldn't consume 20x the energy of an average American household in he sole Tennesee house (he has several mansions). This guy is a crook, for sure. A crook panicking because his dirty tricks is beeing discovered (Kyoto is unravelling, sea rise is NOT accelerating, the Earth is cooling since 1998, no new Katrina, the Chindians couldn't care less about CO2 ...)



Apparently Gore's house only uses energy generated from methods that do not generate CO2 (wind, solar, etc). I heard him make this statement during his congressional visit on C-span a few weeks ago.


If you heard him make that statement, he is an embarrassingly flagrant liar in addition to being a nut. (I suspect that will prompt a cheap shot from Walter and OE too.)

Here's the real skinny on Snopes re Gore's main residence energy consumption. (There's lots of other sources but this one was just easiest to get to.)

http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp

Now you will find those who claim Gore purhases energy credits to offset the high energy consumption of his several automobiles, his private jet, his extravagant living accommodations, etc. And that goes back to the hypocrisy of 'carbon credits' discussed yesterday. Natural gas isn't produced using wind, solar, etc. and it isn't consumed using carbon-friendly means either. If you're purchasing carbon credits that others aren't using, you're still using a huge amount of energy and doing little to cut back on 'green house gas emissions' that you claim will doom us all in 10 years. He indeed talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk so how scared do you really think he is?

Give me a break.
_________________
--Foxfyre

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I?-
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Apr, 2007 12:12 pm
First, Gore (and others) didn't say that the world will die in 10 years. They are saying that we have a small window in which to change our ways relative to our use of fossil fuels. After that period, changes will not help. A NASA scientist, who the administration tried to muzzle, said the same thing.

The shots made at Gore's film come from the Competitive Institute, which is hardly an unbiased group. His film has solid support from respected scientists, but not from right-wing organizations.

Gore's home is essentially an office building. It uses a bit more power because the home serves as the base for his business, film, and other activities. But the charges DO constitute good swift-boating.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Apr, 2007 12:14 pm
miniTAX wrote:
sea rise is NOT accelerating, the Earth is cooling since 1998, no new Katrina


Sea level rise IS happening.
The Earth is NOT cooling.
And Katrina happened only 20 months ago.

What are you smoking?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Apr, 2007 12:30 pm
Haven't you heard the news, they now think global warming should cause less hurricanes, so how could Katrina be caused by global warming?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417182843.htm
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Apr, 2007 12:34 pm
Regarding sea level rise, miniTax can easily get answers for his region and departement in 3 rue Fondaudège :wink:
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