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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 01:03 pm
I just returned from a trip to NV, driving through a good bit of the state. I was disappointed, and surprised, that I didn't see a single solar panel on homes and businesses. This is an area in which the sun is shining almost constantly, with hardly a cloud in the sky.

Our country seems to be missing the boat. We should try to be the leader in conservation technology, through which a lot of money will be made. I understand that we are way behind.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 02:40 pm
blatham wrote :
Quote:
LIkely the Canadian group mentioned is the Fraser Institute, a corporate advocacy front group that has had a significant and ubiquitous presence in Canadian media for a couple or three decades. Again, I recommend to all Larry Tye's book "The Father of Spin" as a good primer on the history of corporate marketing in America - highly sophisticated, highly effective and completely amoral.


dr ross mckitrick , one of the four scientists interviewed for the globe and mail article i posted , is actually a 'senior fellow of the frazer institute' .
it seems that even some members of that institution are beginnig to acknowledge that climate change is beginning to impact the earth .
just wanted to give credit where credit is due .
hbg
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Feb, 2007 02:50 pm
advocate wrote :
Quote:
I just returned from a trip to NV, driving through a good bit of the state. I was disappointed, and surprised, that I didn't see a single solar panel on homes and businesses. This is an area in which the sun is shining almost constantly, with hardly a cloud in the sky.

Our country seems to be missing the boat. We should try to be the leader in conservation technology, through which a lot of money will be made. I understand that we are way behind.


somewhat in line with advocate's entry is the following article from the BBC website :
Quote:
Firm offers 'terror-free' petrol

The group says it wants to inform the public
A "terror-free" petrol station has opened in the US city of Omaha.
The Terror-Free Oil Initiative (TFO), which runs the outlet, says none of its fuel comes from countries which it believes are supporting terrorism.

It currently uses only petrol from the US and Canada, rejecting supplies from the Middle East and elsewhere.

The TFO admits this is difficult on a large scale but says using its petrol will send a message to the big oil companies that customers want change.

The outlet is decorated to drive home its message. Along with the large Terror-Free signs, the pumps display a diagram of how the owners believe unscreened fuel funds the enemies of the US.

Perhaps most emotive is the TFO's logo, which combines the twin towers, the Pentagon and the United 93 designation of the fourth 9/11 plane.

In a statement, the group's spokesman Joe Kaufman, said: "We cannot help but feel held hostage to the whims of those that, if they weren't accepting our money, would instead accept our demise.

"Because of this, and other reasons as well, our quest is to get away from Middle Eastern oil altogether."

The station is reported to have had a quiet start, not helped by a nearby rival dropping its prices.


not much interest in 'terror-free oil' it seems .
hbg

link :
...TERROR FREE OIL , ANYONE ?...
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 10:22 am
blatham wrote:
On the plus side, Exxon scientistic employees argue, rising tides are bound to lift all boats.
Waterworld! Imagine Police-Montée Blatham drowning his horse and patrolling on sirens. http://images.forum-auto.com/images/perso/1/benny95.gif
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 10:34 am
miniTAX wrote:
Waterworld! Imagine Police-Montée Blatham drowning his horse and patrolling on sirens. http://images.forum-auto.com/images/perso/1/benny95.gif


http://www.rcmp.ca/caw/images/coastal_logo.jpg
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miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 10:43 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Now, my original question: what is the downside to all this? How is it going to kill our economy to begin to transition to a non-oil based energy society?
You don't need to "kill" something to do harm. If you want to see the downside of carbon limitation, just look at Europe which is experimenting it live and failing miserably to implement Kyoto despite billions $ wasted so far: see this article from Benny Peiser. Heck, I wish we in Old Europe could get rid of this stupid law. You Cycloptichorn dream about it. How about striking a win-win (unless it's loss-loss) deal ?
Quote:
Kyoto sinks Europe: Billions in costs make it more and more unlikely that the EU can continue to go it alone slashing carbon emissions
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 10:50 am
At least, you're quoting a really left wing voice (EU-comissioner Verheugen).
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miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 10:51 am
It's crazy, can someone please help me. This blogdemonstrates with IPCC's numbers that projection uncertainties have increased in the last Summary For PolicyMakers compared to the 2001 TAR.
Sorry, it's in French but the graphs speak for themselves.
What's "wrong" with this ? Shocked
http://skyfall.free.fr/images/TempTAR_4AR.jpg
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 10:59 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
At least, you're quoting a really left wing voice (EU-comissioner Verheugen).
A left wing (which I remind is considered a communist by Americans Laughing ) EU commissioner AGAINST Kyoto ?
Man, we shouldn't call it protocol but (e)mission impossible.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 11:08 am
Verheugen isn't against Kyoto - at least he wasn't this week when I heard him.

He's the Indidtry Commissioner - would be on the wrong psotion when at least not trying to influence such.

And actually he succeeded last week - if you'd looked beyond your own nose and taken a more recent source you would have noticed that.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 11:09 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
miniTAX wrote:
Waterworld! Imagine Police-Montée Blatham drowning his horse and patrolling on sirens. http://images.forum-auto.com/images/perso/1/benny95.gif


http://www.rcmp.ca/caw/images/coastal_logo.jpg


Very funny, you guys!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 11:21 am
miniTAX wrote:
A left wing (which I remind is considered a communist by Americans Laughing ) ..


I'm not going to discuss what Americans consider to be 'left-wing', but Verheugen reprents the left wing of the German Social-Democracy .... with quite a liberal touch - not for nothing he'd been before a member of the German Liberal Party (FDP).
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 08:49 pm
In the following piece, I will acknowledge right up front that Jack Kelly has no education, credentials, or experience in any climatological field. He's a marine veteran, has some knowledge of national security, and he's a pretty good journalist not known to do sloppy research for what he writes.

The following is a capsule of the whole debate re global warming as a global phenomenon without discussion on what or what not to do about it. The most interesting thing is the sources he cites and, as we have discussed at some length in this thread, how much consideration should be given to what they say.

If.....and that is a big IF.....the sunspot activity is actually the primary culprit in all this, at least one of the sources he cites projects that the next period of global cooling begins in about five years.

I vote for global warming
Let's hope we're heating the Earth because it's going to get colder
by Jack Kelly
Sunday, February 04, 2007

For the past two weeks the weather in Pittsburgh has been typical for January -- it's snowed almost every day. And for the first time this winter I've heard complaints about the weather at work. I heard none during our unseasonably warm December.


Jack Kelly is national security writer for the Post-Gazette and The Blade of Toledo, Ohio ([email protected], 412-263-1476).

I note this to put in perspective the latest scare report on global warming from the United Nations. Average global temperatures could rise by 2 to 4.5 degrees Celsius (3.6 to 8 degrees Fahrenheit) by 2080 if carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere double, according to the summary of an upcoming report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. This could result in flooding in coastal areas and water shortages that could affect billions of people. And this is based on hypothetical piled upon hypothetical and computer models which cannot duplicate the actual climate of the present or the recent past.

There is no question the planet is getting warmer. In the 20th century, average global temperatures rose by 0.6 degrees Celsuis (1 degree Fahrenheit). Most of that warming took place before 1940, a fact which those who attribute warming chiefly or entirely to human activity usually ignore.

But the planet is always getting either warmer or cooler. The current warming trend began about 300 years ago, in the depths of the Little Ice Age (A.D. 1350-1900).

The Little Ice Age followed the Medieval Warm Period (A.D. 800-1300), when global temperatures were about as warm as the climate-change panel predicts they might be in 2080. In those days Greenland was actually green, and wine grapes grew in Nova Scotia.

Leaks of the panel's report coincided with publication of two books which link climate change to a long, moderate solar cycle.

In "Unstoppable Global Warming Every 1,500 Years," Fred Singer and Dennis Avery present evidence of 600 moderate warmings in the last million years.

In "The Chilling Stars," Henrik Svensmark and Nigel Calder discuss how cosmic rays amplify small changes in the sun's irradiance, creating 1- to 2-degree Celsuis cycles in temperatures on earth.

Sun spot activity has reached a 1,000-year high, said scientists affiliated with the Max Planck Institute in Gottingen, Germany, and the Institute for Astronomy in Zurich, Switzerland, in a 2004 report. More sun spots mean Earth will grow warmer; fewer mean it will turn colder. Solar radiation has increased by 0.05 percent per decade since the 1970s, concluded a NASA-funded study in 2003.

Alarmists attribute warming to rising levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. But CO2 accounts for only about 0.03 percent of the earth's atmosphere, and less than 10 percent of the greenhouse effect. Only about 14 percent of the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere comes from burning fossil fuels.

Dr. Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of the space research laboratory at the Pulkovo Observatory in St. Petersburg, Russia, says the alarmists have confused cause and effect. As solar radiation warms the earth, CO2 is released into the atmosphere from the world's oceans, he said last month.

There's considerable evidence of global warming on Mars, Dr. Abdussamatov said. Since there are no people on Mars, it's clear the warming there and here is due to the sun, he said.

Every change in climate has pluses and minuses. But for humans, warmer is usually better. The Medieval Warm Period was a time (mostly) of peace and plenty; the little Ice Age (mostly) of starvation and war.

As evidence mounts that it is the sun and not man that is responsible for global warming, the alarmists grow more strident and try to stifle debate. Al Gore canceled a long-standing interview with a Danish newspaper last month because he would have had to appear with Bjorn Lomborg, a former member of Greenpeace, but a global-warming skeptic. Heidi Cullen, an "expert" for the Weather Channel, has said meteorologists who disagree with her about global warming should be decertified.

In their efforts to capture public attention, some climate scientists have oversold global warming, said Kevin Vranes, a climate scientist at the University of Colorado.

"Some of us are wondering if we have created a monster," he told The Houston Chronicle.

If Dr. Abdussamatov is right, we'd better hope there is some truth to the man-made global-warming hypothesis. Solar irradiation has peaked and begun to fall, he said. This will result in a cooling period of about 50 years, beginning around 2012.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07035/758996-373.stm
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 09:39 pm
I do not believe there will be any resolution of this hot potato issue any time soon. I hope I live long enough to watch the temperatures begin their reverse for a few years, just to have the fun of listening to the alarmists. They will not admit anything, however, and might even argue the theory that the cooling is less severe than it would have been, so that when the cycle reverses, the global warming problem will really come back with a double vengeance. The "Sky is Falling" crowd has been around since mankind inhabited the earth, and the only difference with this one is the increased communication and power of the press, to scare and to manipulate people into a frenzy.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Feb, 2007 03:59 am
From 2/2/07 climate change deniers should be treated with the same respect as Holocaust deniers, i.e. none.
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okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Feb, 2007 11:09 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
From 2/2/07 climate change deniers should be treated with the same respect as Holocaust deniers, i.e. none.


Steve, join all the other kooks out there. You have alot of company. Believe what you want but kindly leave the rest of us sane folks alone, please.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Feb, 2007 11:19 am
I saw an interview yesterday with George Will and David Brooks. On the question of the IPC report, Brooks said, "I've changed on this. Listen, I got Cs in science and I don't really have any option but to tip my hat to the scientific consensus. The discussion now is what policies to adopt." (paraphrased, but precisely his point).

Integrity and rationality ought to be validated.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Feb, 2007 11:38 am
One of the most interesting components of this whole debate (for me anyway) has been how strident the pro-AGW camp is in its criticism of and contempt for critics of AGW and how paranoid they are in their belief that the government is stifling or altering pertinent data that supports AGW.

These same people, however, do their utmost to discredit any critics of or skeptics of AGW, have no apparent problem with any activity that in any way stifles or silences those voices, and apparently cheer on the likes of Heidi Cullen who actually, without qualifications, suggests that their credentials as scientists should be rescinded.

Isn't it interesting how the pro-AGW people value objectivity and/or any presented facts only if these agree with their already firmly made up minds? But nobody who disagrees is given credit for having any credibility whatsoever. And these same people hail science as the god of all truth in the universe too.

Here's another one they can despise. Smile

Global Warming is not due to human contribution of Carbon Dioxide
Global Warming: The Cold, Hard Facts?

By Timothy Ball
Monday, February 5, 2007

Global Warming, as we think we know it, doesn't exist. And I am not the only one trying to make people open up their eyes and see the truth. But few listen, despite the fact that I was the first Canadian Ph.D. in Climatology and I have an extensive background in climatology, especially the reconstruction of past climates and the impact of climate change on human history and the human condition. Few listen, even though I have a Ph.D, (Doctor of Science) from the University of London, England and that for 32 years I was a Professor of Climatology at the University of Winnipeg. For some reason (actually for many), the World is not listening. Here is why.

What would happen if tomorrow we were told that, after all, the Earth is flat? It would probably be the most important piece of news in the media and would generate a lot of debate. So why is it that when scientists who have studied the Global Warming phenomenon for years say that humans are not the cause nobody listens? Why does no one acknowledge that the Emperor has no clothes on?

Believe it or not, Global Warming is not due to human contribution of Carbon Dioxide (CO2). This in fact is the greatest deception in the history of science. We are wasting time, energy and trillions of dollars while creating unnecessary fear and consternation over an issue with no scientific justification. For example, Environment Canada brags about spending $3.7 billion in the last five years dealing with climate change almost all on propaganda trying to defend an indefensible scientific position while at the same time closing weather stations and failing to meet legislated pollution targets.

No sensible person seeks conflict, especially with governments, but if we don't pursue the truth, we are lost as individuals and as a society. That is why I insist on saying that there is no evidence that we are, or could ever cause global climate change. And, recently, Yuri A. Izrael, Vice President of the United Nations sponsored Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) confirmed this statement. So how has the world come to believe that something is wrong?

Maybe for the same reason we believed, 30 years ago, that global cooling was the biggest threat: a matter of faith. "It is a cold fact: the Global Cooling presents humankind with the most important social, political, and adaptive challenge we have had to deal with for ten thousand years. Your stake in the decisions we make concerning it is of ultimate importance; the survival of ourselves, our children, our species," wrote Lowell Ponte in 1976.

I was as opposed to the threats of impending doom global cooling engendered as I am to the threats made about Global Warming. Let me stress I am not denying the phenomenon has occurred. The world has warmed since 1680, the nadir of a cool period called the Little Ice Age (LIA) that has generally continued to the present. These climate changes are well within natural variability and explained quite easily by changes in the sun. But there is nothing unusual going on.

Since I obtained my doctorate in climatology from the University of London, Queen Mary College, England my career has spanned two climate cycles. Temperatures declined from 1940 to 1980 and in the early 1970's global cooling became the consensus. This proves that consensus is not a scientific fact. By the 1990's temperatures appeared to have reversed and Global Warming became the consensus. It appears I'll witness another cycle before retiring, as the major mechanisms and the global temperature trends now indicate a cooling.

No doubt passive acceptance yields less stress, fewer personal attacks and makes career progress easier. What I have experienced in my personal life during the last years makes me understand why most people choose not to speak out; job security and fear of reprisals. Even in University, where free speech and challenge to prevailing wisdoms are supposedly encouraged, academics remain silent.

I once received a three page letter that my lawyer defined as libellous, from an academic colleague, saying I had no right to say what I was saying, especially in public lectures. Sadly, my experience is that universities are the most dogmatic and oppressive places in our society. This becomes progressively worse as they receive more and more funding from governments that demand a particular viewpoint.

In another instance, I was accused by Canadian environmentalist David Suzuki of being paid by oil companies. That is a lie. Apparently he thinks if the fossil fuel companies pay you have an agenda. So if Greenpeace, Sierra Club or governments pay there is no agenda and only truth and enlightenment?

Personal attacks are difficult and shouldn't occur in a debate in a civilized society. I can only consider them from what they imply. They usually indicate a person or group is losing the debate. In this case, they also indicate how political the entire Global Warming debate has become. Both underline the lack of or even contradictory nature of the evidence.

I am not alone in this journey against the prevalent myth. Several well-known names have also raised their voices. Michael Crichton, the scientist, writer and filmmaker is one of them. In his latest book, "State of Fear" he takes time to explain, often in surprising detail, the flawed science behind Global Warming and other imagined environmental crises.

Another cry in the wildenerness is Richard Lindzen's. He is an atmospheric physicist and a professor of meteorology at MIT, renowned for his research in dynamic meteorology - especially atmospheric waves. He is also a member of the National Academy of Sciences and has held positions at the University of Chicago, Harvard University and MIT. Linzen frequently speaks out against the notion that significant Global Warming is caused by humans. Yet nobody seems to listen.

I think it may be because most people don't understand the scientific method which Thomas Kuhn so skilfully and briefly set out in his book "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions." A scientist makes certain assumptions and then produces a theory which is only as valid as the assumptions. The theory of Global Warming assumes that CO2 is an atmospheric greenhouse gas and as it increases temperatures rise. It was then theorized that since humans were producing more CO2 than before, the temperature would inevitably rise. The theory was accepted before testing had started, and effectively became a law.

As Lindzen said many years ago: "the consensus was reached before the research had even begun." Now, any scientist who dares to question the prevailing wisdom is marginalized and called a sceptic, when in fact they are simply being good scientists. This has reached frightening levels with these scientists now being called climate change denier with all the holocaust connotations of that word. The normal scientific method is effectively being thwarted.

Meanwhile, politicians are being listened to, even though most of them have no knowledge or understanding of science, especially the science of climate and climate change. Hence, they are in no position to question a policy on climate change when it threatens the entire planet. Moreover, using fear and creating hysteria makes it very difficult to make calm rational decisions about issues needing attention.

Until you have challenged the prevailing wisdom you have no idea how nasty people can be. Until you have re-examined any issue in an attempt to find out all the information, you cannot know how much misinformation exists in the supposed age of information.

I was greatly influenced several years ago by Aaron Wildavsky's book "Yes, but is it true?" The author taught political science at a New York University and realized how science was being influenced by and apparently misused by politics. He gave his graduate students an assignment to pursue the science behind a policy generated by a highly publicised environmental concern. To his and their surprise they found there was little scientific evidence, consensus and justification for the policy. You only realize the extent to which Wildavsky's findings occur when you ask the question he posed. Wildavsky's students did it in the safety of academia and with the excuse that it was an assignment. I have learned it is a difficult question to ask in the real world, however I firmly believe it is the most important question to ask if we are to advance in the right direction.

Dr. Tim Ball, Chairman of the Natural Resources Stewardship Project (www.nrsp.com), is a Victoria-based environmental consultant and former climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg. He can be reached at [email protected]
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/global-warming020507.htm
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Feb, 2007 12:03 pm
okie wrote:

Steve, join all the other kooks out there. You have alot of company. Believe what you want but kindly leave the rest of us sane folks alone, please.


Well, okie, perhaps you should try to remember the title of this thread ... ...
0 Replies
 
miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Feb, 2007 03:00 pm
Steve 41oo wrote:
From 2/2/07 climate change deniers should be treated with the same respect as Holocaust deniers, i.e. none.

In France, they have already started the trial of me on this site (translation "quel con" = "what a jerk") http://images.forum-auto.com/images/perso/10/matmax.gif

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/4786/procclimatrg3.jpg
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