High Seas wrote:Blatham - if George OB shows up he'll explain the math to you; I really have to disappear again, but here's a funny site for you in the meantime:
Quote:......The truth is, no one has a clue.
To be P or not to be P, that is NP's question. A million-dollar question, in fact. That's how much prize money the Clay Mathematics Institute will award Alice if she resolves the tractability of library splitting. (She will also be shipped to Guantánamo by the CIA, but that's a different essay.)
http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~chazelle/pubs/algorithm.html
HS
george and I are no longer speaking. I've been informed via a third party that he remains a Republican. I have standards.
Very well written and funny piece, isn't it. thanks.
news from Federal Way, Washington...
Quote:Hardiman, a parent of seven here in the southern suburbs of Seattle, has himself roiled the global-warming waters. It happened early this month when he learned that one of his daughters would be watching "An Inconvenient Truth" in her seventh-grade science class.
"No you will not teach or show that propagandist Al Gore video to my child, blaming our nation -- the greatest nation ever to exist on this planet -- for global warming," Hardiman wrote in an e-mail to the Federal Way School Board. The 43-year-old computer consultant is an evangelical Christian who says he believes that a warming planet is "one of the signs" of Jesus Christ's imminent return for Judgment Day. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/24/AR2007012401807.html
His angry e-mail (along with complaints from a few other parents) stopped the film from being shown to Hardiman's daughter.
Of course, Etruscia was the greatest nation ever to exist on this planet (establishing comparisons with nations from other planets is fraught with serious metaphysical dilemmas) so he's wrong on that point, even if he has all else correct.
Piffka wrote:Nairobi? Apparently you haven't seen the film, miniTax, or you'd know that Nairobi is not featured. I honestly don't remember this quote "above the mosquito line."
Man, what a ridiculous claim, Piffka !
At the 53rd minute of his film, Gore said "some towns have been founded ABOVE the mosquito line, Nairobi, Harar" and shows a drawing of the putative "mosquitos line before 1970".
He continues: "now, with global warming, mosquitos migrate to higher altitudes".
That's BS and you know it. And that's not me who say it, but Prof Reiter, an Institut Pasteur's expert on Malaria who has worked for years for the CDC.
What else do you need to be convinced that Al Gore lied about malaria, buddy ?
Piffka wrote: Nairobi is having a terrible malaria problem.
No, it's untrue. Africa has a terrible malaria problem. NOT Nairobi, a favorite tourist destination. Pls, do your home work.
blatham wrote:
george and I are no longer speaking. I've been informed via a third party that he remains a Republican. I have standards.

Knowing that even a conservative Canadian is considered a liberal in the US, I understand :wink:
miniTAX wrote:blatham wrote:
george and I are no longer speaking. I've been informed via a third party that he remains a Republican. I have standards.

Knowing that even a conservative Canadian is considered a liberal in the US, I understand :wink:
Yes, there's a significant difference between the two nations' worldviews. For example, our flagpoles descend down into the ground and the satellites we've put into orbit have no cameras or weapons, just a big Cana-arm that waves hello to us on fly-by.
That's a great animated gif, by the way. I have some saved on my computer but I don't get to use them much as they involve groups of naked Europeans.
blatham wrote: george and I are no longer speaking. I've been informed via a third party that he remains a Republican. I have standards.
Don't you think this belongs into your "Orwellian government" thread? "Blatham has always been at war with georgeob1."
Thomas wrote:blatham wrote: george and I are no longer speaking. I've been informed via a third party that he remains a Republican. I have standards.
Don't you think this belongs into your "Orwellian government" thread? "Blatham has always been at war with georgeob1."
I've spent the last several minutes trying to work up a "Eurasia" term which adapts the Irish element. The attempt has failed. It isn't merely that *irishia is so awkwardly voiced and non-euphonious but more to point, who else would link up with them?
I am not going to defend Gore's claim that the malaria in Nairobi is from global warming but to claim Gore lied about malaria is false as well.
http://www.pbs.org/journeytoplanetearth/hope/nairobi.html
Then there is this on malaria in the Kenyon highlands from the cdc
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol8no6/01-0309.htm
Quote:Our data confirm significant surges in malaria cases, requiring intensive clinical management during specific years of the 1990s because of substantial overall increases in the number of cases at each hospital. To provide a series of explanations for these increases is tempting, invoking arguments for and against climate change, drug resistance, and land use changes; various authors discuss these arguments elsewhere (16-18,20,23-26,30,45-48).
There have been studies that point to global climate change as the cause.
Global warming and increased malaria incidence in Rwanda
Highland malaria epidemic in Kenya
The travel sites, medical and transportation, all list Nairobi as not prone to malaria.
Interesting reading in the comments section here
Misquito in Nairobi
The Kenyan Demographic and health study has this to say
Quote:The distribution of malaria is not uniform, because of geographical differences in altitude, rainfall
and humidity. ... 4) malaria free (Nairobi and some parts of Central Province).
Kenyan Demographic and Health Survey
It seems you are as guilty as Gore, miniTAX if not more guilty. Gore at least has more than one published scientific source supporting his statement. You relied on only the statements of a single Professor that haven't been peer reviewed.
blatham wrote:I've spent the last several minutes trying to work up a "Eurasia" term which adapts the Irish element.
You talk to George, the IRA terrorists win. It endangers America that we even discuss the matter here.
parados wrote:You relied on only the statements of a single Professor that haven't been peer reviewed.
"Peer reviewed" statements ??? You must be kidding right ?
I don't know if you do have a rational mode on your thinking machine or if it is dead locked on the emotional mode. Anyway, I 'm not in the mood to spend time debunking your claims after being accused of talking without having viewed Al Gore's film or lying as much if not more as Gore.
So if you want to believe that Nairobi is NOT malaria free even if the WHO or travel agencies say it's free, if you want to believe Gore instead of a malaria specialist who cites many verifiable scientific and historical facts when talking about malaria, so be it.
MiniTax -- Thanks. So you've seen Al Gore's film. I thought you conservative types were staying away before the 14th, so you wouldn't be part of the group. What do you remember most? When you use words like BS, I want to use bad words, too. Surely you don't want me to sink to a low level of civility.... even as the globe warms, does the discourse need to?

As I said, I will point out that the Nairobi information is in question. What about Harare, I wonder. When a city starts as a railroad station and is on a river, just how far away from Mosquitos can you get?
Parados, thanks... that's what I found, too. Medication failures and Lake Victoria dying, more breeding grounds & the great influx of people seems to have brought the disease closer to the city. Now, why Lake Victoria is so much smaller...
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Study/Victoria/
"... in early 2006, the Jason-1 satellite revealed that Lake Victoria had reached lows not seen since well before the dam was built."
Thomas, thanks. I appreciate your taking the time to check that out because want to be balanced in my approach. I appreciate listening to calmer heads. From you...that the economies are essential to the equation.
I agree that while Kyoto was flawed, the prestige of honoring, even trying to honor, that commitment to the rest of the world to slow our polluting ways would have been enormous. We end up paying, one way or another.
I show loads of films & have all the film rights, etc. to do so. This is just one of several Academy Award nominee scheduled. Another person has offered to bring solar-powered fuel cells to run the projector. (!)
Did anybody see the article about Global Warming in the latest Smithsonian Magazine? It is a two pager about Susan Solomon. Here are a few choice quotes:
Quote:"Climatologists are like Cassandra, cursed to tell the future but not to be believed."
"The science is strong... 'This much I can say (says Solomon), "The climate is changing and quite noticably."
....'The effects will vary from region to region, and the challenge that society will face is to get people to think beyond their own backyards and to make judgements about the risks they're willing to take.'"
"Do you feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?"
Strong words from the Smithsonian, I thought.
miniTAX wrote:parados wrote:You relied on only the statements of a single Professor that haven't been peer reviewed.
"Peer reviewed" statements ??? You must be kidding right ?
I don't know if you do have a rational mode on your thinking machine or if it is dead locked on the emotional mode. Anyway, I 'm not in the mood to spend time debunking your claims after being accused of talking without having viewed Al Gore's film or lying as much if not more as Gore.
So if you want to believe that Nairobi is NOT malaria free even if the WHO or travel agencies say it's free, if you want to believe Gore instead of a malaria specialist who cites many verifiable scientific and historical facts when talking about malaria, so be it.
In case you bothered to check my sources, some of them included published papers by scientists that included those that work at the CDC. The travel stuff was just piling on to show how common the notion has been that Nairobi is without malaria. It seems you can't be bothered to check out the recent epidemic in Nairobi. An epidemic that is larger than the ones reported in the 30-40s.
You might want to spend some more time reading the articles you posted and comparing them to what you just posted as what Gore really said..
Rieter said
Quote:Gore's claim is deceitful on four counts. Nairobi was dangerously infested when it was founded; it was founded for a railway, not for health reasons; it is now fairly clear of malaria; and it has not become warmer.
Now what you claim Gore said..
Quote:At the 53rd minute of his film, Gore said "some towns have been founded ABOVE the mosquito line, Nairobi, Harar" and shows a drawing of the putative "mosquitos line before 1970".
He continues: "now, with global warming, mosquitos migrate to higher altitudes".
I can see that one of Rieter's points is clearly wrong based on Gore's statement, can you? If you want to argue that Gore is wrong because he got one fact wrong then shouldn't the same apply to Rieter?
Thomas wrote:blatham wrote:I've spent the last several minutes trying to work up a "Eurasia" term which adapts the Irish element.
You talk to George, the IRA terrorists win. It endangers America that we even discuss the matter here.
Then please...let us discuss it further!
Death, Be Not Cloud
An excerpt from Feeling the Heat sizes up the ominous Asian Cloud
By Jim Motavalli
28 Sep 2004
This piece is excerpted from Feeling the Heat: Dispatches From the Frontlines of Climate Change. Other contributors to the book include writers Ross Gelbspan, David Helvarg, and Mark Hertsgaard and photographer Gary Braasch.
Feeling the Heat: Dispatches From the Frontlines of Climate Change
Edited by Jim Motavalli, Routledge, 176 pages, 2004The Indian city of Mumbai, formerly Bombay, is home to one of Asia's largest slums and endures among the worst air quality on earth. Half the city's population lacks running water or electricity, and the smoke from countless wood-burning cooking fires joins with the acrid haze from two-stroke auto rickshaws, diesel buses, and coal-fired power plants to all but choke the city. Breathing Mumbai's air, reports the Lonely Planet travel guide, is equivalent to smoking 20 cigarettes a day. Comparable air quality wraps New Delhi, Bangalore, and 69 of India's 70 principal cities year-round, according to a 1997 study by India's Central Pollution Control Board.
But the nation's air-pollution problem doesn't stop at street level -- or, for that matter, at the level of city, region, or even nation. U.S. military pilots flying over the Indian Ocean in the 1980s were the first to detect a large, dense cloud of soot floating far above Asia. Since then, the so-called Asian Cloud has shown up regularly in satellite photographs.
In 1999, a team of scientists funded by the National Science Foundation began a $25 million surveillance of the Indian Ocean. The team discovered that the Asian Cloud hangs at an elevation of one to two miles above the earth's surface and covers 6 million square miles* -- about the size of the continental United States, and only slightly smaller than the ozone hole at its peak in 2000. The cloud floats over the northern Indian Ocean, the Arabian Sea west of Mumbai, and the Bay of Bengal. The source is air pollution from India and China, produced by hundreds of millions of wood, coal, and oil fires -- a dense haze blown out to sea during the winter monsoon season.
When the cloud was first discovered, scientists were astounded by its size and troubled by its composition. Its tiny sun-blocking particles called aerosols -- a complicated chemical soup of soot, sulfates, nitrates, ash, and dust -- exist in gigantic concentrations and have the power to block sunlight, potentially influencing climate nearly as much as carbon dioxide.
No silver lining on this cloud.
Photo: NASA."The local effect is well-known, because wintertime [smog] can sometimes close airports in India and Pakistan for weeks. But it was not known that [the cloud] had spread over the entire ocean. It stunned us to discover how pervasive these aerosols are," said Veerabhadran Ramanathan, a professor of atmospheric and ocean sciences at the Scripps Center for Clouds, Chemistry, and Climate and codirector of the U.N.'s Indian Ocean Experiment (INDOEX).
In August 2002, Ramanathan and Paul Crutzen of Germany's Max Planck Institute for Chemistry released the first comprehensive scientific study on the Asian Cloud under the banner of the United Nations Environment Program. The report is based on INDOEX studies from more than 200 scientists in Europe, India, and the U.S. The researchers found that the two-mile-thick pollution cloud, though it probably affects everyone on the subcontinent, hits vulnerable people especially hard. It may already be a factor in the premature deaths of a half-million mothers and children under age 5 in India annually, says one INDOEX study. It also contributes to nearly 700,000 air pollution-related deaths worldwide every year -- which could climb to 8 million by 2020.
The soot cloud also reduces the amount of solar energy hitting the earth's surface by as much as 15 percent, interfering with photosynthesis. It could potentially cut India's rice harvest by 5 to 10 percent -- a sobering forecast for a nation where hunger is already an issue and the population is expected to grow to 1.6 billion people by 2050, overtaking that of China to make India the world's most populated country.
Ramanathan also worries about the unknown effects of the Asian Cloud on life in the world's oceans. "The haze causes a loss of sunlight striking the surface of the sea, and we are just starting research on how that affects photosynthesis and ocean plankton," he said. In still another unmeasured impact, aerosols in the cloud get caught up in regional thunderstorms, falling into oceans as acid rain and potentially harming sea life.
The cloud could also aggravate existing environmental problems like the looming Third World water crisis. Aerosols block sunlight that causes evaporation at the ocean's surface, and thus interfere with natural rain patterns. "In my own work, the most worrisome effect is on the water cycle of the planet," Ramanathan said. "This is the century for water shortages, and the last thing we need is this particulate effect, but we appear to be stuck with it."
In The Same Vein
Dim Sun
Global dimming? Global warming? What's with the globe, anyway?Ramanathan and other scientists have shown that brown-cloud particulates are likely to be affecting and complicating global warming, though in ways that are not yet fully understood. We do know that the Asian Cloud "is having a cooling effect on the [earth's] surface, but at the same time is also warming the atmosphere," Ramanathan said. The cloud may already be adversely influencing regional climate. Barry Joe Huebert, a University of Hawaii atmospheric chemist, thinks that the loss of ocean sunlight may be dramatically altering Asia's whole hydrological cycle, disrupting the monsoons and contributing to a pattern of severe droughts, storms, and erratic rains in Asia over the last decade. According to The Guardian, the disruption of once-predictable monsoon rains is having an impact on agriculture "and adversely affecting the health and livelihoods of up to 3 billion people throughout Asia." In May and June of 2003, southern India endured an unprecedented month-long heat wave with temperatures of 120 degrees Fahrenheit that claimed more than 1,500 lives, according to the World Meteorological Organization.
There is also bad news for the U.S. and other nations: The Asian Cloud doesn't stay put. Scientists say that it can probably travel around the world in less than a week, carried on upper atmospheric winds. According to David Parrish of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Aeronomy Lab in Boulder, Colo., recent research reveals that Asian soot particles are "piggybacking" on immense Asian dust clouds, catching a free ride to the West Coast of the United States. "When [dust and soot] particles run into each other they tend to stick together," he said. "It's all being transported on the same air mass."
The implications of the global transport of air pollution are still uncertain. "We're beginning to feel our way around the elephant," Parrish said. "Only a relatively few episodes have been studied in detail." But the net effect, he believes, is an increase in both global warming and coastal pollution. "The dust tends to scatter solar radiation back into space, while the soot absorbs it, heating the atmosphere."
Parrish notes that a study of springtime ozone levels in California showed that they had increased by a third between 1985 and 2002. "We can point to Asia as the likely cause, but we have no clear evidence," he said. "The increase was larger than we had expected, and it reduces the latitude we have to mess up our own air."
Don't Blame Me!
The political response to revelations about the Asian Cloud by Ramanathan and others has been largely hostile. Ramanathan's studies of the phenomena were made public in the summer of 2002, and his future, and the future of Asian Cloud research, has since been threatened by Indian politicians who were incensed that their country was being singled out.
India's environment and forests minister, T.R. Baalu, even defended the Asian Cloud with a rather twisted bit of environmental-justice illogic. He claimed that India's stupendous emissions are a "necessity" because its people are poor and have no choice but to burn animal dung, wood, and charcoal. True enough -- but it hardly explains why the minister stayed silent regarding India's lack of rigorous auto-emission controls and the related health problems stemming from poor air quality and borne largely by the poor.
The political outcry has thus far resulted in turning a blind eye to the cloud -- and in a loss of funding for the U.N.'s INDOEX work. Some United Nations research will likely continue, but the U.N. has cautiously replaced the term "Asian Cloud" with the generic phrase: "Atmospheric Brown Cloud" so as not to implicate any nation -- or even continent -- as the source.
Meanwhile, India's citizens have made several mostly fruitless attempts to clear the air. The country's best-known tourist attraction prompted one such effort. Over recent decades, tourists have watched the Taj Mahal's marble facade fade from dazzling white to dingy yellow, and its dome begin flaking away under a relentless attack by acid rain.
Mahesh Chandra Mehta, a prominent environmental lawyer in India, filed suit in the Indian Supreme Court in 1984, claiming that pollution was ruining not only the Taj, but also the health of the people of Agra, the city where the monument is located. Twelve years later, in 1996, the court ruled in favor of Mehta. Coal-based brick kilns were ordered shut down. The biggest factory in Agra, Sterling Machine Tools, switched from coal power to natural gas. Some 292 coal-based industries were asked to switch to gas fuels or close by the spring of 1997. For all this, Mehta won the Goldman Environmental Prize.
But the health of the Taj and of millions of Indians is still in serious danger. Despite the court order to clean up Agra, progress has been slow. Many small companies lack the funds to make the costly switch to natural gas. The basic cost for each conversion, according to UNESCO, is $75,000 to $100,000 -- a quarter of annual sales for many companies. Agra's Iron Founders Association has also fought back, claiming that natural-gas technology isn't ready yet and that shutting down foundries would idle 30,000 workers. Faced with closure, factory workers burned their bosses in effigy.
By 2000, Agra had moved cars and some small shops away from the immediate vicinity of the Taj, but few factories were shut down. Tourists, 1.8 million of them annually, now reach the landmark in a small fleet of electric vehicles, a belated and probably futile attempt to preserve Shah Jahan's 17th century palace from pollution.
Cloud-Cuckoo Land
While the environmental impacts and politics surrounding the cloud remain complex and unresolved, the steps needed solve the problem are clear. "There are solutions," David Viner of the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia told the BBC. "Stop burning the forests, switch to less-polluting fuels, and introduce clean-air technology, like scrubbers on power-station chimneys. They're simple to work out. Unfortunately, they're rather more difficult to implement."
As the Asian Cloud's threat becomes global, some argue that the cleanup bill should be shared, rather than dumped on the backs of India's poor. In 2000, then-U.S. President Bill Clinton visited the Taj Mahal to sign an environmental agreement providing $45 million for energy-efficiency programs in India -- a good start, but little funding has been forthcoming since.
Resolving the problem at the source will require a new infusion of global will, said Margaret Hsu and Laura Yee in a recent online report. They argue that the West must pay attention to the air pollution generated by developing nations: "The obvious, but perhaps less-attainable, solution is to distribute more efficient sources of energy and better technology to the masses," they write. "Once the majority of India and China is lifted out of poverty, theoretically they will no longer need to burn biofuels, and the dominant cause of the cloud will have been eliminated ... f people in the United States believe the Asian Brown Cloud to be a threat and are truly concerned, they also have a responsibility to fix the problem. This may include developing more efficient technology, and ... making it more available and affordable."
Until such a time comes, the Asian Cloud will likely continue growing. Joseph Prospero, a professor of marine and atmospheric chemistry at the University of Miami and an INDOEX participant, acknowledges the power of this dark shroud to do great planetary harm: "Anyone who's ever been to India knows there's a lot of pollution there. It's scary, and it's the way it will go in all of Asia."
And as goes Asia -- home to 60 percent of the planet's 6 billion-plus people -- so may go the world.