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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 09:41 am
blatham wrote:
Sunny morning. Bookstore door is unlocked and a gentleman enters and heads to the front counter.

"Yes, sir, can I help you?"

"I'm looking for the "Treatise on an Open Mind" by foxfyre"

"Oh yes, that's a favorite. Just go down the aisle passing "History" and "Logic" and you'll be at the "Composting" section. You'll find it on the bottom row right between "The Compassionate Torturer's Handbook" and "Hermann Goering - Delight of Dusseldorf".


Is that meant as humor, blatham? I just wanted you to know it utterly failed if it was. For humor to work, it needs to incorporate a grain of truth.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 09:43 am
Laughing How about a huge nugget of truth?

Seriously, Okie, you don't know for how long she's been spouting off, self-righteously, about topics that she doesn't understand.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 09:56 am
I think everybody spouts off here don't they? I think Foxfyre is a very well common sense reasoned opinion here. Better than yours, cyclops! Oh well, if everybody agreed, the forum would die quickly wouldn't it, so you should be happy to have Foxfyre's opinions and others like her, as it can hopefully keep you from going too far into never never land.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 09:59 am
okie wrote:
I think Foxfyre is a very well common sense reasoned opinion here. Better than yours, cyclops!


Hahah, yeah, no.

I mean, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but you just haven't been around for the dozens and dozens of times she's gotten smacked down for being factually incorrect, logically incorrect, or just plain stupid.

It gets tiresome after a while... but you're right, it's still pretty funny Laughing

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 10:05 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Okie writes
Quote:
it is he complaining about the dire consequences of man-caused global warming, not me, so it seems it would be incumbent on him to do something about it. Simple common sense reasoning is all this is, if you can grasp it.


This is the thing isn't it? I don't believe a single signatory to the Kyoto Accord has accomplished or even nearly accomplished their assigned goals to reduce greenhouse emissions, yet they insist that the U.S. do so. Not one is willing to do what is necessary to eliminate human generated greenhouse gas emissions (nor should they), but condemn those who won't agree to do what apparently is not reasonable to do. Further some of the world's worst culprits in greenhouse gas emissions are exempted from the plan at all.

However, should it be determined that elimination of human generated greenhouse gasses is necessary, I am never one to say that something can't be done just because nobody has every done it. I think humankind will solve the problem just as they have solved many other seemingly insurmountable problems in the past. But it would go a long way to working together to move in the right direction if there was more acknowledgment of the present realities and a lot less hypocrisy by those who don't seem to want to acknowledge them.

(P.S., the other component in the bus vs hummer analogy, if that hummer is hauling six folks to work every morning, even at some distance, it is more efficient that each of the six driving their own Honda Civic to work. There are many more factors to consider than Civic = good; Hummer = bad. That has to be factored into the long distance commute on the bus vs the 1 mile commute by hummer, too.)


These are all good points that prudent people with no ideological ax to grind should factor into the system.

Here in New Mexico, it is not uncommon for people to commute 50 to 100 miles to work especially in the area around Albuquerque where most of the people are. Carpools are encouraged with Park and Ride locations staked out in several places, but working New Mexicans nevertheless drive a lot and put significant mileage on their cars and trucks every year.

The latest project was a commuter train running the most heavily travelled commuter route from Belen, 30 miles south of Albuquerque to Santa Fe, 50 miles northeast of Albuquerque. With one train running now from Belen to Bernalillo (20 miles N of Albuquerque), the round trip is about two hours. When the route is extended on to Santa Fe the round trip will be significantly longer creating a definite logistical problem for people riding the train who have to be someplace at a given time.

Right now the project will cost another few hundred thousand to create silent crossings in neighborhoods who don't like the train whistle, and the project is stalled while they find a Santa Fe neighborhood who will allow the train to come through their neighborhood at all. (Here we have that hypocrisy thing again as Santa Fe is the most greenl stronghold in New Mexico--our version of the land of fruits and nuts. They're all for going green but not in THEIR neighborhood.

And then with limited ridership, you have to wonder about all that diesel power running the track all day and all night plus the regular transportation (furnished mostly by the riders) to get to the train at each end of the route.

Energy efficient? I am reserving judgment on that, but it sure doesn't look like it is.

Hydrogen powered cars for instance emit no greenhouse gasses. But according to what one engineer in the business told me recently, it requires twice the greenhouse gas emitting energy to produce the hydrogen as it does to produce the equivalent mileage in gasoline. So do we gain anything? Probably not.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 10:12 am
Quote:
But according to what one engineer in the business told me recently, it requires twice the greenhouse gas emitting energy to produce the hydrogen as it does to produce the equivalent mileage in gasoline.


This is what I'm talking about, Okie. No links, no actual facts, just anecdotal evidence which is displayed as if it were a linked fact. Because Fox's experiences are clearly representative of the entire world. Laughing

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 10:27 am
Come on cyclops, she is only quoting a conversation with an engineer. If you doubt the information, which is given in total honesty, go refute it with some link you can find. I tend to think the assertion makes sense, cyclops, because common sense tells us it takes electricity to convert water to hydrogen, and if its done with coal or natural gas, could very well cause alot of greenhouse gas.

And the information about Albuquerque is totally right. It is too spread out for mass transit to work very well.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 10:31 am
okie wrote:
Come on cyclops, she is only quoting a conversation with an engineer. If you doubt the information, which is given in total honesty, go refute it with some link you can find. I tend to think the assertion makes sense, cyclops, because common sense tells us it takes electricity to convert water to hydrogen, and if its done with coal or natural gas, could very well cause alot of greenhouse gas.

And the information about Albuquerque is totally right. It is too spread out for mass transit to work very well.


Thanks Okie. Some members think they can say any damn thing they want and it's just 'opinion' that they are not required to support. But God forbid anybody on the other side say anything to suppport whatever point is being made regardless of whether they clearly express it as opinion or hearsay or from whatever source. They are immediately accused of 'making it up' or 'lying'. More examples of the gross hypocrisy in the ideological spectrum.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 10:32 am
okie wrote:
Come on cyclops, she is only quoting a conversation with an engineer. If you doubt the information, which is given in total honesty, go refute it with some link you can find. I tend to think the assertion makes sense, cyclops, because common sense tells us it takes electricity to convert water to hydrogen, and if its done with coal or natural gas, could very well cause alot of greenhouse gas.

And the information about Albuquerque is totally right. It is too spread out for mass transit to work very well.


It's always 'anecdotal evidence,' lol. And there's no reason that renewable sources couldn't be used to power hydrogen plants at all.

And about Albequerque... maybe it's too spread out right now, but one of the major attractors to a city is the ability to commute in. Why wouldn't cheap, reliable public transportation provide a reason for people to move to the city? Once the population of the region is tripled, won't the mass transportation make sense? Mass transit scales quite well to population increases, whereas automobiles, not so much.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 10:41 am
I will refer you to Cyclops post 1311396 4-30-05.

My response Post 1311579

And Cyclops response Post 1311579 in which he said
Quote:
My above statement is presented as opinion. You are free to disagree with it; if I wanted to state it as a categorical fact, I would have provided supporting evidence, which I didn't care to do.


Now then, if we can continue the discussion including hypocrisy from those on the left.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 10:51 am
It takes quite a bit of cognative dissonance to ignore the fact that you got your ass handed to you on that thread, Fox, really, and not just by me, but by a whole host of people.

Here's my response to your posts, and with an actual link, no less:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1354270#1354270

You are the queen of willfull ignorance. You ignore any facts which don't hold up your position, and rely upon opinions as facts. Truly unbelievable.

Cycloptichorn
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 11:02 am
To Cyclop: Whether I got 'my ass handed to me or not" is another statement of fact I suppose you think is not necessary to back up. The fact remains that few members makes these wild accusations and 'statements of fact" more than you do and probably few members back them up less than you do. And based on your own statement, you don't feel any compulsion to do so.

I recommend that all members maintain a level of civility and allow reasonable discussion pertinent to a topic to proceed.

Other than that, I don't know what else to do other than adhere to and/or resume my personal policy of not feeding the trolls, not arguing with idiots, and not engaging in exercises of futility.
0 Replies
 
Clary
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 11:17 am
There was a very interesting report from the United States on a company that's processing old tyres and plastic to create the hydrocarbons necessary to fuel cars.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 11:17 am
Foxfyre wrote:
To Cyclop: Whether I got 'my ass handed to me or not" is another statement of fact I suppose you think is not necessary to back up.


No, it is a fact. Those looking for evidence of it should read the thread here:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1039019#1039019

To see that you started with a flawed proposition, attempted to rely upon bogus statistics, faulty logic, and personal anecdotal evidence to back up your position, and reacted as if it was a personal attack when people pointed out how wrong you were. You just kept digging the hole deeper and deeper the more errors in your logic were pointed out to you. I would highly encourage a re-reading of the thread, and you'll see just what a fool you made of yourself; everyone else saw, for sure.


Quote:
The fact remains that nobody makes these wild accusations and 'statements of fact" more than you do and probably few members back them up less than you do.


This is a fact, hmm? You have evidence, or some sort of link, to wild accusations that I make 'more than anyone?' Even in the midst of a discussion about fact/opinion, you go back to labelling things as facts without providing any evidence of it.


Quote:
And based on your own statement, you don't feel any compulsion to do so.


I don't feel any compulsion to do anything at all on A2K. I do what I like on A2K. If people feel that my arguments are lacking because I haven't linked to back them up with evidence, then they are perfectly correct to challenge me to provide evidence. If I cannot do so, I say so; this is one of the major differences between you and I, fox; you are unable to admit that your anecdotal experiences don't amount to squat in terms of argument.

Quote:
I recommend that all members maintain a level of civility and allow reasonable discussion pertinent to a topic to proceed.


By 'level of civility' you of course mean 'not pointing out how colossaly wrong I am, over and over, allowing me to maintain the fantasy that I belong in these discussions.' Sorry, I expect others to point out when I am wrong, you should expect the same. Also, an adult would be able to tell the difference between an attack on one's logic and position and an attack on one's self, a skill which you clearly lack.

Quote:
Other than that, I don't know what else to do other than adhere to and/or resume my personal policy of not feeding the trolls, not arguing with idiots, and not engaging in exercises of futility.


It doesn't matter to me, or anyone else, what policies you decide or don't decide to pursue. I'll still point out every time that you are incorrect, every time I feel like doing so. You can answer or not answer as you see fit, of course, but it won't change the fact that someone is addressing your continual lapses in logic, judgement, and intelligence.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 11:20 am
The fact remains Cyclops, as I demonstrated with your own words, is that you don't practice what you preach (i.e. rant about). If you're going to call somebody an idiot, you really should be prepared to back it up with something other than your opinion. Otherwise you really do look like one.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 11:25 am
Foxfyre wrote:
The fact remains Cyclops, as I demonstrated with your own words, is that you don't practice what you preach (i.e. rant about). If you're going to call somebody an idiot, you really should be prepared to back it up with something other than your opinion. Otherwise you really do look like one.


I did back it up with something more than my opinion. I linked to an entire thread in which you embarassed your self over and over with poor logic and worse execution of argument.

I do practice what I preach, in fact. It is hard to see how you calling me on:

-me making a comment
-you saying that said comment has no facts to back it up
-me admitting that this was my opinion, and not a fact

makes me into someone who claims opinions as facts over and over again, someone who uses poor logic and retreats into 'I'm being personally attacked!' every time someone has the audacity to point out that I am wrong.

Once again, you have claimed that something is a 'fact' without showing that it is, in fact, a fact. I'm beginning to doubt that you understand what 'fact' means. What you really meant to say is that it is your opinion that I act in this manner.

I really shouldn't have to school a supposed teacher on basic concepts - I suppose this says something about why the majority of higher learning professionals are liberal-leaning, they apparently understand logic just a little better.

Cycloptichorn
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 11:31 am
Invoking personal policy. Rant on my friend. Rant on.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 11:39 am
haha, 'rant?' Is a logical, sourced discussion of the continual logical errors of another poster a 'rant?'

How easily you shrug off valid criticism; I almost envy the skill. Never feeling a need to respond, or answer criticisms, you instead resort to attacking those who have pointed out flaws and errors in your arguments. It's the same behavior we see in elected Republicans, so you can't really be blamed for following the official playbook of your party; never defend, always attack.

Your accusations of 'ranting' would have a lot more substance if you had any sort of logical defense, but you don't. But, since I guess you are too cowardly to respond to logical attacks on your position (and you hide under the pretense of 'ignoring those who make personal attacks, etc') I'll just go on documenting for the record the myriad logical nd factual errors you make on a daily basis.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 11:47 am
Cyclops Post 1311579 in which he said
Quote:
My above statement is presented as opinion. You are free to disagree with it; if I wanted to state it as a categorical fact, I would have provided supporting evidence, which I didn't care to do.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 11:50 am
Apparently you haven't completely invoked your 'personal policy' yet.

Cycloptichorn
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