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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 02:52 am
Well, the UK seems to go in opposition to their leader, at least in one point:

Quote:
Britain Slams U.S. over Global Warming

"PA"


Britain has bluntly criticised the US for being one of the world's worst polluters and not doing enough to tackle global warming.

Britain's ambassador to the UN, Sir Emyr Jones Parry, said yesterday: "It is important that climate change rises up the US agenda."

Parry Jones singled out the US for its poor record on global warming at an event yesterday marking the entry into force of the Kyoto protocol.

The pact, which went into effect on Wednesday, imposes limits on emissions of carbon dioxide and other gases blamed for rising world temperatures, melting glaciers and rising oceans.

The US has refused to ratify the agreement, saying it would harm its economy and is flawed by the lack of restrictions on emissions by emerging economies such as China and India.

But Jones Parry called for a "strong US contribution" to international talks on cutting down emissions beyond the targets already set under the Kyoto agreement.

"We need much more effort. The post-Kyoto regime will require serious, concerted international commitment. Too many countries are still unwilling or unable to take steps to combat climate change."

Britain has made climate change a top priority this year for its presidency of the G8 group of the world's wealthy nations, and its presidency of the EU.

Jones Parry called global warming an "urgent problem," pointing to the fact that five hottest years on record have all been since 1997. The number of people affected around the world by floods had gone up from seven million a year to 150 million, he added.

Jones Parry singled out the US as one of the world's worst polluters, saying that while America has 4% of the world's population, it is responsible for a fifth of global emissions.

"It consumes almost a quarter of the world's energy, more than China, Russia and Japan combined. The average American citizen produces 21 tons of carbon per year, twice that of a British or Japanese citizen," he said.

Jones Parry said the if the US wanted to reduce its dependence on foreign oil, part of the answer would be to use less energy and encourage consumers and industry to switch to alternative energy supplies.
Source
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 08:56 am
The Scripps study was widely reported in publications less polemical than the Independent newspaper; here's the same story on the Financial Times:
_____________________________________________________________

Global warming real' say new studies
By Clive Cookson in Washington
Published: February 18 2005 14:18 | Last updated: February 18 2005 14:18

A leading US team of climate researchers on Friday released "the most compelling evidence yet" that human activities are responsible for global warming. They said their analysis should "wipe out" claims by sceptics that recent warming is due to non-human factors such as natural fluctuations in climate or variations in solar or volcanic activity.


Scientists from the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in California have been working for several years with colleagues at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory to analyse the effects of global warming on the oceans. They combined computer modelling with millions of temperature and salinity readings, taken around the world at different depths over five decades.

The researchers released their conclusions on Friday at the American Association of the Advancement of Science meeting in Washington. They found that the "warming signals" in the oceans could only have been produced by the build-up of man-made carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Non-human factors would have produced quite different effects.


Tim Barnett, the Scripps project leader, said previous attempts to show that human activities caused global warming had looked for evidence in the atmosphere. "But the atmosphere is the worst place to look for a global warming signal," he said. "Ninety per cent of the energy from global warming has gone into the oceans and the oceans show its fingerprint much better than the atmosphere."

Prof Barnett added: "The debate over whether there is a global warming signal is over now at least for rational people." He urged the US administration to rethink its refusal to join the Kyoto Protocol, which took effect this week.

The Scripps scientists also looked at the likely climatic effects of the warming they observed. They highlighted the impact on regional water supplies, which would be severely reduced during the summer in places that depend on rivers fed by melting winter snow and glaciers such as western China and the South American Andes.

The conference also heard a gloomy analysis of the way the North Atlantic Ocean is reacting to global warming from Ruth Curry of Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts. Her new study showed that vast amounts of fresh water more than 20,000 cubic kilometres have been added to the northernmost parts of the ocean over the past 40 years because the Arctic and Greenland ice sheets are melting.

According to Dr Curry, the resulting change in the salinity balance of the water threatens to shut down the Ocean Conveyor Belt, which transfers heat from the tropics towards the polar regions through currents such as the Gulf Stream. If that happened, winter temperatures in northern Europe would fall by several degrees.

The possible failure of the North Atlantic conveyor has been discussed for several years and was fictionalised last year in the film The Day After Tomorrow. Dr Curry said the accumulation of freshwater in the upper ocean layers since the 1990s meant that the risk should be taken seriously.
_____________________________________________________________
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/4c7db6de-81b7-11d9-9e19-00000e2511c8,dwp_uuid=d4f2ab60-c98e-11d7-81c6-0820abe49a01.html

There is nothing in this report to contradict what Thomas, George OB, I and others have said on the Kyoto accords. It's OK to disagree with us after you do us the courtesy of reading us - ahem!
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HofT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 09:26 am
P.S. After reviewing the full text of this study (portion of which, from the Liver Livermore labs, was posted by Walter several pages back) I wish to add that nobody denies either the recent warming of the planet or the dangers of pollution, especially on the oceans.

We disagree on the cost effectiveness of the policy prescriptions set forth in the Kyoto accords. I hope that was clear.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 09:56 am
I haven't gone back and read through this whole thread but something was mentioned the other day on a PBS program (Nova) and I'm just wondering if anyone has seen any research that might have been published about any possible correlations.

On this program they discussed the movement of the earth's magnetic poles and noted that there have been several changes in the rate of this movement over the decades. For example, the poles were moving at a rate of 10m/year from the 1940s through 1970 and then the rate changed to 40m/year.

All of the dates mentioned seem to tie in with timeframes I've seen mentioned in Global Warming discussions.

Does anyone know if there is any research on this as a possible tie-in to the whole issue?
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 10:41 am
Fishin' - the magnetic declination of poles is a standard measurement in navigation. Oddly the geographic poles move slightly also, but by a far smaller magnitude. The magnetic north has been moving northwards through Canadian territory ever since it was located in 1831:

http://www.sciam.com/media/inline/000444EF-BC2B-1C71-9EB7809EC588F2D7_arch1.gif
http://www.sciam.com/askexpert_question.cfm?articleID=000444EF-BC2B-1C71-9EB7809EC588F2D7

The magnetic poles of the earth are inverted every 100,000 years or so, which doesn't seem to correspond with the warming-cooling cycles. Geomagnetic forces (including solar radiation) are so enormous it's safe to say both cycles are affected. Btw, nice to see you!
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 10:45 am
No such Thing as Man-Made Global Warming
http://www.newswithviews.com/DeWeese/tom23.htm

Quote:

There is no scientific evidence to back claims of man-made global warming. Period. Anyone who tells you that scientific research shows warming trends-be they teachers, newscasters, Congressmen, Senators, Vice Presidents or Presidents-is wrong. In fact, scientific research through U.S. government satellite and balloon measurements shows that the temperature is actually cooling-very slightly-.037 degrees Celsius.

A little research into modern-day temperature trends bears this out. For example, in 1936 the Midwest of the United States experienced 49 consecutive days of temperatures over 90 degrees. There were another 49 consecutive days in 1955. But in1992 there was only one day over 90 degrees and, in 1997, only 5 days. Because of modern science and improved equipment, this "cooling" trend has been most accurately documented over the past 18 years. Ironically, that's the same period of time the hysteria has grown over dire warnings of "warming." ...


Entire article, long:

http://www.newswithviews.com/DeWeese/tom23.htm
0 Replies
 
HofT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 10:53 am
P.S. sorry link won't work directly; you can reach it by searching the SciAm database.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 10:59 am
Ploesti
The two most obvious things I'd mention to anybody worrying about "global warming" are that one, the sum total of all the pollution man has ever created since Adam and Eve is less than one medium sized volcano and, two, if WW-II didn't cause the great man-made environmental disaster, it ain't ever gonna happen.

In WW-II, all motors were running on leaded gas, and they ran full-bore for five or six years. We sank the entire navies of the axis powers including hundreds of ships loaded with petroleum, and we bombed out all of the oil facilities in the axis world or available to the axis world.

http://www.ww2guide.com/oil.shtml

B-24s over Ploesti:

http://www.ww2guide.com/ploesti2_s.jpg

http://www.ww2guide.com/oilrun.jpg

http://www.ww2guide.com/vienna_s.jpg


Quote:

Tidal Wave August 1, 1943
Operation Tidal Wave was designed to be an all-out maximum effort against the Ploesti oil fields. Colonel Jacob E. Smart, a member of the Advisory Council first came up with the idea of striking Ploesti at low-level with heavy bombers. It was a gutsy some felt suicidal plan but it went up the chain of command and got the backing of General 'Hap' Arnold and the president. Planning was meticulous including two full-scale practice missions against a replica of Ploesti built in the desert. Since Ploesti was located north of heavily defended Bucharest it forced any attacking force to divert around the capital to have any chance of reaching the target unmolested. This was a key feature of Operation Tidal Wave and it called for precision navigation and strict radio silence...
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HofT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 11:13 am
Gunga - the new study agrees with that assessment when it comes to measuring global warming in the atmosphere:

"....But the atmosphere is the worst place to look for a global warming signal,..." from FT article just posted.

Please, no unrelated pics - some posters here have slow connections and it takes them a very long time to download pages. Thanks.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 12:00 pm
HofT, I'm not saying you, Thomas and George are wrong, but I'm saying there is a body of evidence, and a lot more fresh water in the oceans, which should be of concern to all.

I agree it's unlikely we can do anything about it now....even if London goes underwater and Bangladesh and the Maldives disappear, the Chinese will still be burning brown coal and the deforestation will no doubt continue everywhere.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 03:23 pm
global warming
a very interesting article appeared in the 18 february 2005 issue of the german newspaper "Die Welt". while the article is in german and i have not been able to find an english translation for it, i think it warrants an entry here. the article is called : "die klimageschichte der erde steckt voller raetsel " ; loosely translated : " the clima history of the earth is full of puzzles ". many of the scientists mentioned in the article can be found under google and quite a few of the publications referred to in the article are in english. the way i understand the article, the climatic conditions of the earth have been influenced by both man-made actions and nature (the phrase "fingerprints of mankind" is being used) . while there may be no reason to panic, we should take actions to reduce the impact of the "fingerprint of mankind" , and we should also try to learn what we need to do to cope with both the problems caused by mankind and nature . any comments on this ? hbg >>> CLIMATIC PUZZLES
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 03:41 pm
HofT wrote:


Please, no unrelated pics - some posters here have slow connections and it takes them a very long time to download pages. Thanks.



Sorry, but I thought the pics were related. Basically, in my view, one only has to look at the films of the raids on Ploesti and then comprehend that similar raids were going on elsewhere as well, basically everywhere oil was being pumped, or refined or flowing into the axis war machine and all that smoke rising miles into the air, to comprehend that if that didn't cause the great environmental disaster, it's not going to happen.

At least not due to the activities of man.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 03:55 pm
fishin : i posted some info re shifting of magnetic poles quite some time ago. i picked up the info from the magazine "deutschland" ( " germany " , it's an official mag of the german government and deals with all kinds of subjects; it can be found under www.magazine-deutschland.de ). the article published by a university research team dealt with a possible 'reversal' of the magnetic poles. as far as i can remember, the research suggested that reversals had taken place in the past and would likely re-occur. that's really all i remember now. i'm sure there is plenty of info out there. hbg
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 04:02 pm
global warming
fishin : here is one article on "reversal of magnetic poles" . just hang on tight and things will be just fine ... don't fall of the edge now. hbg REVERSAL OF POLES
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HofT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 07:18 pm
Hamburger - on the 3rd page of your first link >
http://www.welt.de/data/2005/02/18/489821.html?s=3
> is this sentence:

"Für ein menschengemachtes Signal spreche nicht das Niveau der Temperatur, sondern die Geschwindigkeit ihrer Änderung. ["In order to determine whether the effect is man-made it's more important to look not to the temperature level but to the speed at which it changes.]

Fishin's question on the magnetic poles, as I understood it, was not if they move or get inverted, but whether the rate of change of their motion (which has accelerated in recent decades) can be linked to global warming.

I'm glad to read the article you posted though as it reiterates the point in the latest Scripps Oceanographic Institute article: not the actual change in temperature (first derivative of prevailing temperatures) but the second derivative (rate of change of the change) is the determining factor for concluding whether the recent heating is due to any known natural process or not.

As to McTag's bleak prediction that nothing will change and China will continue to burn filthy coal further poisoning the oceans with mercury and other heavy metals: whether this is good news or not I cannot say, but we do have a man in DC, Mr. Perle, former member of the Defense Advisory Board, advocating a massive nuclear attack on China as a pre-emptive measure. The gentleman never specified the altitude at which the weapons should explode (the higher the altitude the less the fallout pollution) but his notion has been seriously debated. For some reason the Chinese have ignored him completely so far. The late Mr. Packard (co-founder of Hewlett-Packard and a great genius) however had an even bleaker simulation model if uncontrolled population increase continues in Africa and India; you probably don't want to hear it.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2005 08:05 pm
i'm fairly optimistic in believing that china (and other countries) will improve their environmental practices as their economies develop. just comparing newsclips from twenty years ago to those of today, shows that china has made quite impressive improvements. as the living standard (and the education) of the chinese people improves , i am quite confident that they will demand better living conditions (including improved air-quality). there are already interesting developments involving canada and china. chinese immigrants that came to canada twenty to thirty years ago and that have started businesses in canada, are now starting to set up businesses in china. they are setting up businesses with the most modern equipment and i don't think they like to have their plants ruined by excessisse pollution. also the 'walmart special'(shown on CNBC recently) about the walmart operations in china showed facilities that seemed to be on par with what we have in north-america. from what i've read, we may have to be more concerned about africa [ extreme poverty, (almost) non-existent or extremely corrupt governments, aids and other scourges ] than either china or india. who knows who'll be right ? hbg
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 12:34 am
Isn't it amazing...tho' off topic.

That man Perle- he wants to kill most people in China because....he wants to make the world safer or more pleasant for Americans?

You couldn't make it up. AND, he is, or was, a government advisor.
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HofT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 06:38 am
McTag - as someone observed fact is necessarily stranger than fiction because fiction has to follow rules of verisimilitude and fact doesn't.

Before my firewall forces me into another disappearing act here's a cautionary tale from the mathematical modelling front:
_____________________________________________________________

"The model used by Mickley and her colleagues incorporates things such as the sun's luminosity, topography of the planet, the distribution of the oceans, the pull of gravity and the tilt of the Earth's axis, as well as predicted warming.

They fed in gradually increased levels of greenhouse gases at rates projected by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. What they found surprised them. "
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=515445
_____________________________________________________________

What they found would surprise anybody who doesn't remember Rule 1 of modelling, to wit, GIGO (garbage in garbage out). That's one little-noted danger of generalized acceptance of the IPCC projections.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 10:43 am
mctag (still off topic) : " That man Perle- he wants to kill most people in China because....he wants to make the world safer ". ... that's a wonderful thought for a beautiful and sunny sunday ! (well, we'll head for the kingston library this afternoon where the local jazz society will be putting on a concert of cuban music.( hope perle and the marines won't invade and stop the concert). i think the chinese may have a few surprises up their many sleeves for the rest of the world. a chinese friend told me that a great chinese curse is to wish the other party : " may you live in interesting times ! " . we'll try to forget about the crazy goings on in the world this afternoon and enjoy some jazz. hbg
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Feb, 2005 10:46 am
H

Never thought to ask you this before...an old friend of mine from Vancouver, now deceased, was at MIT for a time doing AI work, probably around 1990?...her name was Debbie Guervan. Ever bump into her?
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