73
   

Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 02:54 pm
Items 12 to 16 being prepared for Mr.Kuvasz's consideration.
0 Replies
 
Vietnamnurse
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 07:18 pm
Gee, that was sooo interesting, Bernard. I almost convinced myself to read all of it, but I got interested in something on the blogosphere that really was more realistic. Sorry, but you are really a bore.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jun, 2006 12:49 am
I really must work on my writing skills. I would not want to be labelled as a bore by anyone who is as obviously brilliant as Vietnamnurse. I wonder if you can give me some tips as how I can avoid writing in such a boring way, Ms. Vietnamnurse? I would appreciate it. Thank you, Madame.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jun, 2006 11:47 am
A bit of American history not many Americans know about is referred to in the following piece. It is important history in its own right but has deep relevance to the global warming problem not simply because of the consequences of that particular bit of corporate criminality but also because it reminds us that corporations like GM or Exxon will operate primarily to their own perceived advantage (to use Pat Buchanan's metaphor, morally they function in the manner of sharks). In the case of the petro-chemical industries that includes the funding and promotion of front groups whose prime function is disinformation and legislative influence to further their perceived interests quite regardless of any more responsible set of ethical considerations.

Quote:
High gas prices and our "addiction" to foreign oil, as President Bush has called it, have roots in a nearly forgotten criminal conspiracy. It was this conspiracy that ordained our extreme dependence on cars and trucks and the inevitable and all-but-irreversible results, including filthy air, congestion, long commutes and accelerated global warming.

In 1949, three of our largest corporations--General Motors, Standard Oil of California (SoCal, now Chevron) and Firestone Tire and Rubber (now Japan's Bridgestone)--were convicted of having conspired for more than a decade to replace highly efficient urban electric transit systems with bus lines. The bus lines' operators contracted never to buy new equipment "using any fuel or means of propulsion other than" petroleum. GM, SoCal and Firestone were fined $5,000 each, the maximum the antitrust laws then allowed. GM's treasurer, also convicted, was fined $1.

GM's $5,001 punishment somehow failed to deter it from continuing for six years to acquire electric-powered rail and bus properties and convert them to gasoline and diesel. The conspiracy-to-monopolize convictions, upheld on appeal, never received attention commensurate with their impact. In 1974, however, they did become a subject of Senate Antitrust and Monopoly Subcommittee hearings on the broad topic of auto industry reform...
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060612/mintz
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2006 02:30 am
A very interesting quote, Mr. Blatham, but I am very much afraid that it does not address my points made in Item 1 to Item 11. In order not to disappoint Mr. Kuvasz, to whom I promised I would post my objections to his case for "Global Warming". I will continue and, thereby, be on topic.

Item 12--

That basic climate sensitivity, according to the IPCC2001a9.3.2.1, has remained at 1.5-4.5C also means that we have very little ability to determine whether DOUBLING THE CO2 CONCENTRATIONS WILL MEAN A RATHER SMALL( 1.5C) OR A DRAMATIC (4.5C) TEMPERATURE INCREASE. Actually, if we look at the 9 GCM's which actually ran the A2 and B2 Scenario, it becomes obvious that the temperature prediction for A2 is prediominently dependent on choice of computer model..So, Mr. Kuvasz, it appears that the temperature predicition is not based on objective standards but MERELY ON THE COMPUTER MODEL THEY CHOOSE.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2006 02:33 am
Mr. Blatham- I know you are highly learned. Since Mr. Kuvasz seems to be unavailable to rebut the twelve points I have made thus far, you might wish to give it a try. However, since I promised Mr. Kuvasz that my presentation would be extensive, I feel I should let you know that I have at least eight more Items to present.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2006 03:39 am
As was the case with your previous appearances here under other names, I have no interest in reading or responding to your posts.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2006 03:57 am
I didn't think so, Mr. Blatham. That is why I was rather startled when I saw your post rather than Mr. Kuvasz's post. Mr. Kuvasz, was, after all, the person who I was addressing. You are most welcome if you wish to respond but I assure you I will not deter you from your other more pressing business!
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 03:36 pm
Those who seem to really want there to be human-caused global warming are going to hate this piece and will no doubt use the usual unsupported reasons to discredit it. Those of us who don't believe humans are causing global warming and those of us who don't know but who won't accept intrusive public policy based on incomplete or unsupportable data will love it.

"The Inconvenient Truth" is indeed inconvenient to alarmists
By Tom Harris
Monday, June 12, 2006

"Scientists have an independent obligation to respect and present the truth as they see it," Al Gore sensibly asserts in his film "An Inconvenient Truth", showing at Cumberland 4 Cinemas in Toronto since Jun 2. With that outlook in mind, what do world climate experts actually think about the science of his movie?

Professor Bob Carter of the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University, in Australia gives what, for many Canadians, is a surprising assessment: "Gore's circumstantial arguments are so weak that they are pathetic. It is simply incredible that they, and his film, are commanding public attention."

But surely Carter is merely part of what most people regard as a tiny cadre of "climate change skeptics" who disagree with the "vast majority of scientists" Gore cites?

No; Carter is one of hundreds of highly qualified non-governmental, non-industry, non-lobby group climate experts who contest the hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are causing significant global climate change. "Climate experts" is the operative term here. Why? Because what Gore's "majority of scientists" think is immaterial when only a very small fraction of them actually work in the climate field.

Even among that fraction, many focus their studies on the impacts of climate change; biologists, for example, who study everything from insects to polar bears to poison ivy. "While many are highly skilled researchers, they generally do not have special knowledge about the causes of global climate change," explains former University of Winnipeg climatology professor Dr. Tim Ball. "They usually can tell us only about the effects of changes in the local environment where they conduct their studies."

This is highly valuable knowledge, but doesn't make them climate change cause experts, only climate impact experts.

So we have a smaller fraction.

But it becomes smaller still. Among experts who actually examine the causes of change on a global scale, many concentrate their research on designing and enhancing computer models of hypothetical futures. "These models have been consistently wrong in all their scenarios," asserts Ball. "Since modelers concede computer outputs are not "predictions" but are in fact merely scenarios, they are negligent in letting policy-makers and the public think they are actually making forecasts."

We should listen most to scientists who use real data to try to understand what nature is actually telling us about the causes and extent of global climate change. In this relatively small community, there is no consensus, despite what Gore and others would suggest.

Here is a small sample of the side of the debate we almost never hear:

Appearing before the Commons Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development last year, Carleton University paleoclimatologist Professor Tim Patterson testified, "There is no meaningful correlation between CO2 levels and Earth's temperature over this [geologic] time frame. In fact, when CO2 levels were over ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years." Patterson asked the committee, "On the basis of this evidence, how could anyone still believe that the recent relatively small increase in CO2 levels would be the major cause of the past century's modest warming?"

Patterson concluded his testimony by explaining what his research and "hundreds of other studies" reveal: on all time scales, there is very good correlation between Earth's temperature and natural celestial phenomena such changes in the brightness of the Sun.

Dr. Boris Winterhalter, former marine researcher at the Geological Survey of Finland and professor in marine geology, University of Helsinki, takes apart Gore's dramatic display of Antarctic glaciers collapsing into the sea. "The breaking glacier wall is a normally occurring phenomenon which is due to the normal advance of a glacier," says Winterhalter. "In Antarctica the temperature is low enough to prohibit melting of the ice front, so if the ice is grounded, it has to break off in beautiful ice cascades. If the water is deep enough icebergs will form."

Dr. Wibjörn Karlén, emeritus professor, Dept. of Physical Geography and Quaternary Geology, Stockholm University, Sweden, admits, "Some small areas in the Antarctic Peninsula have broken up recently, just like it has done back in time. The temperature in this part of Antarctica has increased recently, probably because of a small change in the position of the low pressure systems."

But Karlén clarifies that the 'mass balance' of Antarctica is positive - more snow is accumulating than melting off. As a result, Ball explains, there is an increase in the 'calving' of icebergs as the ice dome of Antarctica is growing and flowing to the oceans. When Greenland and Antarctica are assessed together, "their mass balance is considered to possibly increase the sea level by 0.03 mm/year - not much of an effect," Karlén concludes.

The Antarctica has survived warm and cold events over millions of years. A meltdown is simply not a realistic scenario in the foreseeable future.

Gore tells us in the film, "Starting in 1970, there was a precipitous drop-off in the amount and extent and thickness of the Arctic ice cap." This is misleading, according to Ball: "The survey that Gore cites was a single transect across one part of the Arctic basin in the month of October during the 1960s when we were in the middle of the cooling period. The 1990 runs were done in the warmer month of September, using a wholly different technology."

Karlén explains that a paper published in 2003 by University of Alaska professor Igor Polyakov shows that, the region of the Arctic where rising temperature is supposedly endangering polar bears showed fluctuations since 1940 but no overall temperature rise. "For several published records it is a decrease for the last 50 years," says Karlén

Dr. Dick Morgan, former advisor to the World Meteorological Organization and climatology researcher at University of Exeter, U.K. gives the details, "There has been some decrease in ice thickness in the Canadian Arctic over the past 30 years but no melt down. The Canadian Ice Service records show that from 1971-1981 there was average, to above average, ice thickness. From 1981-1982 there was a sharp decrease of 15% but there was a quick recovery to average, to slightly above average, values from 1983-1995. A sharp drop of 30% occurred again 1996-1998 and since then there has been a steady increase to reach near normal conditions since 2001."

Concerning Gore's beliefs about worldwide warming, Morgan points out that, in addition to the cooling in the NW Atlantic, massive areas of cooling are found in the North and South Pacific Ocean; the whole of the Amazon Valley; the north coast of South America and the Caribbean; the eastern Mediterranean, Black Sea, Caucasus and Red Sea; New Zealand and even the Ganges Valley in India. Morgan explains, "Had the IPCC used the standard parameter for climate change (the 30 year average) and used an equal area projection, instead of the Mercator (which doubled the area of warming in Alaska, Siberia and the Antarctic Ocean) warming and cooling would have been almost in balance."

Gore's point that 200 cities and towns in the American West set all time high temperature records is also misleading according to Dr. Roy Spencer, Principal Research Scientist at The University of Alabama in Huntsville. "It is not unusual for some locations, out of the thousands of cities and towns in the U.S., to set all-time records," he says. "The actual data shows that overall, recent temperatures in the U.S. were not unusual."

Carter does not pull his punches about Gore's activism, "The man is an embarrassment to US science and its many fine practitioners, a lot of whom know (but feel unable to state publicly) that his propaganda crusade is mostly based on junk science."

In April sixty of the world's leading experts in the field asked Prime Minister Harper to order a thorough public review of the science of climate change, something that has never happened in Canada. Considering what's at stake - either the end of civilization, if you believe Gore, or a waste of billions of dollars, if you believe his opponents - it seems like a reasonable request.


Tom Harris is mechanical engineer and Ottawa Director of High Park Group, a public affairs and public policy company. He can be reached at [email protected]
SOURCE
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 03:40 pm
From the latest Pew Global Attitude Project (13.06.2006):


http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/5628/zwischenablage013ui.jpg
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 03:49 pm
So some countries like us better than last year. Some don't.

And who cares who thinks what about global warming?

I don't mean to be rude, Walter, but polls about scientific matters are really kind of a waste of time in my opinion. If you polled people on whether chocolate milk came from white cows or brown cows, you would probably get some percentage of each and some percentage of don't knows. But where chocolate milk came from would not change depending on the poll.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 04:08 pm
okie wrote:
So some countries like us better than last year. Some don't.

And who cares who thinks what about global warming?

I don't mean to be rude, Walter, but polls about scientific matters are really kind of a waste of time in my opinion. If you polled people on whether chocolate milk came from white cows or brown cows, you would probably get some percentage of each and some percentage of don't knows. But where chocolate milk came from would not change depending on the poll.


Well, you should make this suggestion to the PEW organisation - perhaps they'll start a study about that over a couple of years as well?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 05:54 pm
Just to stir things up a bit -

Quote:
Scientists respond to Gore's warnings of climate catastrophe
"The Inconvenient Truth" is indeed inconvenient to alarmists
By Tom Harris
Monday, June 12, 2006

"Scientists have an independent obligation to respect and present the truth as they see it," Al Gore sensibly asserts in his film "An Inconvenient Truth", showing at Cumberland 4 Cinemas in Toronto since Jun 2. With that outlook in mind, what do world climate experts actually think about the science of his movie?

Professor Bob Carter of the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University, in Australia gives what, for many Canadians, is a surprising assessment: "Gore's circumstantial arguments are so weak that they are pathetic. It is simply incredible that they, and his film, are commanding public attention."

But surely Carter is merely part of what most people regard as a tiny cadre of "climate change skeptics" who disagree with the "vast majority of scientists" Gore cites?

No; Carter is one of hundreds of highly qualified non-governmental, non-industry, non-lobby group climate experts who contest the hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are causing significant global climate change. "Climate experts" is the operative term here. Why? Because what Gore's "majority of scientists" think is immaterial when only a very small fraction of them actually work in the climate field.

Even among that fraction, many focus their studies on the impacts of climate change; biologists, for example, who study everything from insects to polar bears to poison ivy. "While many are highly skilled researchers, they generally do not have special knowledge about the causes of global climate change," explains former University of Winnipeg climatology professor Dr. Tim Ball. "They usually can tell us only about the effects of changes in the local environment where they conduct their studies."

This is highly valuable knowledge, but doesn't make them climate change cause experts, only climate impact experts.

So we have a smaller fraction.

But it becomes smaller still. Among experts who actually examine the causes of change on a global scale, many concentrate their research on designing and enhancing computer models of hypothetical futures. "These models have been consistently wrong in all their scenarios," asserts Ball. "Since modelers concede computer outputs are not "predictions" but are in fact merely scenarios, they are negligent in letting policy-makers and the public think they are actually making forecasts."

We should listen most to scientists who use real data to try to understand what nature is actually telling us about the causes and extent of global climate change. In this relatively small community, there is no consensus, despite what Gore and others would suggest.

Here is a small sample of the side of the debate we almost never hear:

Appearing before the Commons Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development last year, Carleton University paleoclimatologist Professor Tim Patterson testified, "There is no meaningful correlation between CO2 levels and Earth's temperature over this [geologic] time frame. In fact, when CO2 levels were over ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years." Patterson asked the committee, "On the basis of this evidence, how could anyone still believe that the recent relatively small increase in CO2 levels would be the major cause of the past century's modest warming?"

Patterson concluded his testimony by explaining what his research and "hundreds of other studies" reveal: on all time scales, there is very good correlation between Earth's temperature and natural celestial phenomena such changes in the brightness of the Sun.

Dr. Boris Winterhalter, former marine researcher at the Geological Survey of Finland and professor in marine geology, University of Helsinki, takes apart Gore's dramatic display of Antarctic glaciers collapsing into the sea. "The breaking glacier wall is a normally occurring phenomenon which is due to the normal advance of a glacier," says Winterhalter. "In Antarctica the temperature is low enough to prohibit melting of the ice front, so if the ice is grounded, it has to break off in beautiful ice cascades. If the water is deep enough icebergs will form."

Dr. Wibjörn Karlén, emeritus professor, Dept. of Physical Geography and Quaternary Geology, Stockholm University, Sweden, admits, "Some small areas in the Antarctic Peninsula have broken up recently, just like it has done back in time. The temperature in this part of Antarctica has increased recently, probably because of a small change in the position of the low pressure systems."

But Karlén clarifies that the 'mass balance' of Antarctica is positive - more snow is accumulating than melting off. As a result, Ball explains, there is an increase in the 'calving' of icebergs as the ice dome of Antarctica is growing and flowing to the oceans. When Greenland and Antarctica are assessed together, "their mass balance is considered to possibly increase the sea level by 0.03 mm/year - not much of an effect," Karlén concludes.

The Antarctica has survived warm and cold events over millions of years. A meltdown is simply not a realistic scenario in the foreseeable future.

Gore tells us in the film, "Starting in 1970, there was a precipitous drop-off in the amount and extent and thickness of the Arctic ice cap." This is misleading, according to Ball: "The survey that Gore cites was a single transect across one part of the Arctic basin in the month of October during the 1960s when we were in the middle of the cooling period. The 1990 runs were done in the warmer month of September, using a wholly different technology."

Karlén explains that a paper published in 2003 by University of Alaska professor Igor Polyakov shows that, the region of the Arctic where rising temperature is supposedly endangering polar bears showed fluctuations since 1940 but no overall temperature rise. "For several published records it is a decrease for the last 50 years," says Karlén

Dr. Dick Morgan, former advisor to the World Meteorological Organization and climatology researcher at University of Exeter, U.K. gives the details, "There has been some decrease in ice thickness in the Canadian Arctic over the past 30 years but no melt down. The Canadian Ice Service records show that from 1971-1981 there was average, to above average, ice thickness. From 1981-1982 there was a sharp decrease of 15% but there was a quick recovery to average, to slightly above average, values from 1983-1995. A sharp drop of 30% occurred again 1996-1998 and since then there has been a steady increase to reach near normal conditions since 2001."

Concerning Gore's beliefs about worldwide warming, Morgan points out that, in addition to the cooling in the NW Atlantic, massive areas of cooling are found in the North and South Pacific Ocean; the whole of the Amazon Valley; the north coast of South America and the Caribbean; the eastern Mediterranean, Black Sea, Caucasus and Red Sea; New Zealand and even the Ganges Valley in India. Morgan explains, "Had the IPCC used the standard parameter for climate change (the 30 year average) and used an equal area projection, instead of the Mercator (which doubled the area of warming in Alaska, Siberia and the Antarctic Ocean) warming and cooling would have been almost in balance."

Gore's point that 200 cities and towns in the American West set all time high temperature records is also misleading according to Dr. Roy Spencer, Principal Research Scientist at The University of Alabama in Huntsville. "It is not unusual for some locations, out of the thousands of cities and towns in the U.S., to set all-time records," he says. "The actual data shows that overall, recent temperatures in the U.S. were not unusual."

Carter does not pull his punches about Gore's activism, "The man is an embarrassment to US science and its many fine practitioners, a lot of whom know (but feel unable to state publicly) that his propaganda crusade is mostly based on junk science."

In April sixty of the world's leading experts in the field asked Prime Minister Harper to order a thorough public review of the science of climate change, something that has never happened in Canada. Considering what's at stake - either the end of civilization, if you believe Gore, or a waste of billions of dollars, if you believe his opponents - it seems like a reasonable request.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 06:09 pm
I couldn't be arrsed reading that because I could tell after a line or two that it contained nothing of use.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 06:24 pm
spendius wrote:
I couldn't be arrsed reading that because I could tell after a line or two that it contained nothing of use.


Nothing of use?
Or,nothing you agreed with?

Those are 2 different things.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 06:59 pm
Oh, just take a little look around timber's site. Typical rightwing ****-extruder.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 07:36 pm
Hi, Bernie - good to see ya. Things here are good, I trust all is well with you, yours, and with the manure spreaders of your persuasion as well :wink:
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 08:15 pm
Good to talk to you again too. Things are fine here with our jewelry business enjoying initial success and one of Lola's daughters living here and attending school and with my daughter just back from another adventure travelling in eastern europe and working for a bit in Lisbon. Times are good. Other than as regards the descent of your country down the moral and intellectual toilet, of course.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 08:38 pm
What a great website Timber. Do you think they can fit anymore banner ads in? Integrity it not the highest priority on your list is it? Confusion and disinformation is one of our biggest advisories along with apathy and moral decay. I suppose in the end I will have to admit I gave the American public to much credit. We are no longer capable of democracy.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jun, 2006 09:01 pm
blatham wrote:
Good to talk to you again too. Things are fine here with our jewelry business enjoying initial success and one of Lola's daughters living here and attending school and with my daughter just back from another adventure travelling in eastern europe and working for a bit in Lisbon. Times are good. Other than as regards the descent of your country down the moral and intellectual toilet, of course.


Bernie is a capitalist pig !
0 Replies
 
 

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