60
   

THE MEANING OF OZ - All you need to know!

 
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 02:43 pm
@izzythepush,
Yeah, that's what got to me about the Merkel comments, we all know there were Jewish communities all over Europe for centuries - and we know what happened when times got tough and minority groups got scapegoated.

The Australian experience, not unlike the American one is about the comparative numbers to base population.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 03:18 pm
@hingehead,
Yes......I think people are kind of overawed at the sheer guts of those guys. What a lonely, awful, way to die!
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 10:24 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
Churchill was the clown who dreamed up Gallipoli in WW1

Yes.
And he didn't listen to any of the advice which conflicted with his esteemed view, either, as you'd know.
If anything, Australia's gripe was/is with Churchill & the generals, not the Turkish "foe" at Gallipoli.
Such a terrible sacrifice of so many ANZACs for so little purpose.
Sigh.

It's interesting me how Australians' views of what occurred at Galliopli changed so much during the last century ....
From the initial patriotic pro-British Empire beliefs, to the anti-war sentiments of the 6os & 70s (as expressed in The One Day Of The Year), to the extreme Australian patriotism (of some) of more recent years.

All of this, strangely enough, without us knowing all that much about the Turks whose country we invaded & who we fought against & were defeated by.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Mar, 2012 10:39 pm
@msolga,
It's funny but my adult memory mostly remembers Anzac feeding into an anti-England sentiment (think Gallipoli and Breaker Morant - and Keating on the fall of Singapore), probably symptomatic of some need to finally overthrow the Menzian thrall to the motherland once and for all. We growed up a bit since then.

Whenever I've attended dawn services my internal feelings are always of empathy to young service people losing their lives before they've really started - so it's very much an antiwar thing for me.
0 Replies
 
tenderfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 12:03 am
@hingehead,
Australia's original inhabitants ... todays Aboriginals, tried to stop boat people coming into their country... But luckily for us they couldn't and now they have a modernized.... completely new world, lovingly cared for, no need to hunt and aimlessly wandering around lighting bush fires, or work, free heath care. Also have learnt English and the pleasures of alcohol drinking and tobacco smoking Perhaps now with the new wave of boat people coming in, we will have the same earth shattering thing happen for us.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 12:10 am
@tenderfoot,
Quote:
and now they have a modernized.... completely new world, lovingly cared for, no need to hunt and aimlessly wandering around lighting bush fires, or work, free heath care


Maybe we'll be as fortunate as the aboriginal people, under our new masters. I can't wait for my life expectancy to drop 20 years. Free health care in remote indigenous communites is just fantastic. A bit like free ice in the Sahara.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  3  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 05:24 pm
@msolga,
I have a good deal of bitterness towards the Defence Force, but I earned that right . I can sympathise for the peasant fighting the other peasant because diplomats cant do the job they get paid for .

As for the Turks, even as late as Korea they were the toughest of soldiers . When captured the North Koreans would ask common soldiers who was in charge , having separated the different ranks . They would then take the senior soldier outside and execute him . They would wait a day, then return and ask again . After a while , they realised they would have to execute everyone of them . They fed them disgusting food . The turks ate it anyway . They would take one outside and feed him well , then return him to make it appear he had talked . He hadnt but it worked well with USAians . It didnt work with the Turks . They continued to pray to Al'Lah and continued to mentally fight the enemy from within a prison .

If they think highly of Australian soldiers, that is enough praise to make one giddy .
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 05:35 pm
Always like an outsider's view

Elephants Down Under
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: March 27, 2012

Christchurch, New Zealand
<source - comments are interesting>

I’ve learned three things visiting New Zealand and Australia: There is a place in the world where rugby is front-page news. There is a place in the world — the Auckland airport — where the restrooms have digital clocks in the entryway telling you hourly when they were last cleaned and when they will be cleaned again. And there is a place in the world where moderate Republicans still exist — unfortunately, you have to take a 13-hour flight from Los Angeles to get there.

Indeed, to go from America — amid the G.O.P. primaries — to Down Under is to experience both jet lag and a political shock. In New Zealand and Australia, you could almost fit their entire political spectrum — from conservatives to liberals — inside the U.S. Democratic Party.

Or as Paul Quinn, a parliamentarian from New Zealand’s conservative National Party, once told a group of visiting American Fulbright scholars: “I will explain to you how our system works compared to yours: You have Democrats and Republicans. My Labor opponents would be Democrats. I am a member of the National Party, and we would be ... Democrats” as well.

For instance, there is much debate here over climate policy — Australia has a carbon tax, New Zealand has cap and trade — but there is no serious debate about climate science. Whereas in today’s G.O.P. it is political suicide to take climate change seriously, in Australia and New Zealand it is political suicide for conservatives not to.

In Australia and New Zealand, “there are plenty of climate skeptics in politics, but they know it’s a political loser to say so,” explained the Australian environmentalist Paul Gilding. “This became the case after Australia suffered its worst-ever drought, lasting more than a decade.” Now, “there is strong public acceptance of the basic scientific conclusion that the climate is changing and humans are a significant contributor.”

Tony Abbott, the current leader of Australia’s main conservative party, once crudely dismissed climate change, but after he became the party boss, even he embraced the need to bring down emissions. Instead of cap and trade, though, he argued for industry friendly taxpayer-funded incentives to cut carbon.

Malcolm Turnbull, Abbott’s predecessor, supported cap and trade, as did his predecessor. “On climate,” Turnbull told me, “there has been an assault on the science, and it has had an impact, but not to the point of the center-right parties adopting a ‘climate-change-science-is-bunk’ platform the way the G.O.P. appears to have done.”

Conservatives in Australia and New Zealand have also long accepted single-payer national health care systems. The Labor Party ruled New Zealand from 1999 to 2008, when it was replaced by the conservative National Party. During Labor’s tenure, it passed legislation legalizing civil unions, giving prostitutes the same health and safety protections as other workers, and extending income subsidies for families with children, noted Jon Johansson, a political scientist at Victoria University of Wellington. While these moves were resisted by conservatives when in opposition, he said, they have “not tried to repeal any of them” now that they are in power.

There are many reasons for the narrowness of the political spectrum here, Johansson added. Neither New Zealand nor Australia are strong churchgoing countries, so social issues don’t resonate as much. Both being isolated, sparsely populated, pioneering communities — New Zealand has only 4.5 million people — they have strong egalitarian traditions and believe the state has a role to play in making sure everyone gets a fair shake.

“We also have compulsory voting,” said Turnbull. You get fined if you don’t vote. “In a voluntary voting system like yours, there is always the temptation to run hard on hot-button issues that will fire up the base and get them out to vote. In a compulsory voting system, your base has to vote — as does everyone else — and so the goal is to target the middle ground.”

To be sure, conservatives out here have all the low-tax, free-market, free-trade, less-government instincts of their American colleagues, but it is tempered by the fact that campaign donations and lobbying are much more restricted.

Looking at America from here, makes me feel as though we have the worst of all worlds right now. The days when there were liberal Republicans and conservative Democrats, who nudged the two parties together, appear over. We don’t have compulsory voting. Special interest money is out of control, and we lack any credible Third Party that could capture enough of the center to force both Democrats and Republicans to compete for votes there. So we’ve lost our ability to do big, hard things together. Yet everything we have to do — tax reform, fiscal reform, health care reform, energy policy — is big and hard and can only be done together.

“A lot of us who love your country,” said Johansson, “do not see where change can come from” in America these days. “We see all the barriers you have now to structural and fundamental change. It feels like you’ve lost your amazing ability to adapt politically.”

A version of this op-ed appeared in print on March 28, 2012, on page A27 of the New York edition with the headline: Elephants Down Under.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 05:35 pm
@Ionus,
You may already know, but the Turks in pow camps in the Korean war were the inspiration for the U.S. military's Code of Conduct.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Mar, 2012 05:39 pm
@roger,
Actually I didn't know, and I like tidbits like that . Thanks Rogue . Wink
0 Replies
 
Bootlace
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Mar, 2012 02:20 am
@msolga,
Quote:

@Bootlace,
I'm not sure why you're arguing about multiculturalism, when the original article you posted was about
ANZAC Day. I though the thrust of the report was a recommendation that we (Australians) should
demonstrate more "cultural sensitivity" when celebrating ANZAC Day.
I think that's fair enough.
Do you agree?
I don't get how you jumped from that to arguing against multiculturalism.



If you read the article you would have read this passage :-


Quote:

The centenary is a "double-edged sword" and a "potential area of divisiveness"
because of multiculturalism, a taxpayer-funded report has found.


I don't know where we need to demonstrate more " cultural sensitivity " as I have not seen any
insensitivity at Anzac Services.
Maybe you have, and if so, would be glad to hear about it.


Bootlace
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Mar, 2012 02:22 am
@hingehead,
Multiculturalists oppose the idea of assimilation (whereby immigrants would be encouraged to become Australian)
as they want immigrants to retain their own cultures and pass those cultures onto successive generations.
While it is understandable that immigrants would have an attachment to their place of birth and
native culture, assimilation does not demand that immigrants should forget their origins;
but asks that they, and their offspring, become part of Australia and adapt to the Australian culture
and way of life; rather than give impetus to ghettos and ethnic divisions within the country.

http://www.ironbarkresources.com/mc/mc03.htm
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Mar, 2012 04:15 pm
Good morning, Oz!
In case you're a bit out of it on this gorgeous Sunday morning, turn back your clocks now.
So, if like me, you're on EST, it is now 8:14 am, not 9 14 ..
You can sleep in a bit longer.

Just a friendly reminder, for those of you who might need it. ... Smile
margo
 
  2  
Reply Sat 31 Mar, 2012 04:23 pm
Well, I can't sleep in now that you've woken me up, can I?? Cool
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Sat 31 Mar, 2012 04:30 pm
@Bootlace,
Quote:
I don't know where we need to demonstrate more " cultural sensitivity " as I have not seen any insensitivity at Anzac Services.

No I haven't either, unless you count hardly a mention of the Turks who also died at Gallipoli as the result of our disastrous invasion of their country.

I think in this case, "cultural insensitivity" (for those who might actually need such a message) might mean: don't use ANZAC Day as yet another opportunity for Muslim bashing. Which there has been quite a bit of, in recent years, though not on ANZAC day as best I can recollect.
In other words, treat Muslims in our community with the same respect which Australians are shown each year, when they visit Gallipoli.

I still don't "get" how or why you managed to use that report for an attack on multiculturalism.

0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Mar, 2012 04:32 pm
@margo,
No, absolutely no excuse, margo.

Happy April Fools Day! Very Happy
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Mar, 2012 04:52 pm
@msolga,
I'd be lost without my computers which tell me these important things!
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Mar, 2012 05:21 pm
@dlowan,
I know, Deb.
My computer reminded me & I reminded you! Wink
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  0  
Reply Sat 31 Mar, 2012 07:42 pm
@Bootlace,
That's your definition of multiculturalism, not mine. Multiculturalists oppose the idea of enforced assimilation, they have no objection to providing access to language and other services to help new immigrants 'acclimatize' to their new environments.

Ironbark resources? Give me a break. Funded by the Australian Protectionist Party -which was formed by a guy considered to fascist for the Australia First Party?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Protectionist_Party

Now I know where you're coming from I'd like to see you go back there.
dlowan
 
  0  
Reply Sat 31 Mar, 2012 08:52 pm
@hingehead,
Surprised?
 

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