@msolga,
I don’t know how this quote thing works so I will do my best to answer.
My comments will be in CAPITALS
You appear to be arguing that mentioning "Allah" & "Muslims" in the
tweet makes the comment a religious one.
YES I DO ABSOLUTELY. YOU GOT IT IN ONE.
Should he have said "Lebanese" or "Iranian" or something
national group instead?
IF HE WANTED TO BE A RACIST, YES
Oh come on now! .... no one does that.
I AM TEMPTED TO SAY “I REST MY CASE”
So OK, let me put the question you another way: do you think that was a fair
& reasonable comment for him to make about other Australians?
WHAT OTHER AUSTRALIANS? HE NEVER MENTIONED ANY RACE AT ALL.
Whether you insist on interpreting his comment to be of a religious
or racial nature or not.
Personally, I don't think it's particularly important
which you believe it was.
IT IS VITALLY IMPORTANT TO DIFFERENTIATE
THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT OF MY ARGUEMENT
To me the intent to offend & polarize a particular group is what mattered.
Quote:
My question to you msolga, is, if someone wrote "the pope is a ****"
or
"the arch bishop of canterbury is a ****",
would you consider that
a racist comment ? I bet not.
And nor would it be. And nor would I like
to see it written on our flag.
Call Hogg a secularist, atheist, infidel,
but not a racist.
If I was a devout Catholic I'd probably be offended on the Pope's behalf.
BUT YOU WOULDN'T CONSIDER IT A RACIST REMARK WOULD YOU.
However that statement does not specifically target all Catholics
(in whichever country) as Hogg's did Australian Muslims.
HE NEVER SPECIFIED AUSTRALIAN MUSLIMS AT ALL. HE SAID MUSLIMS.
COMMENTS ON TWITTER GO WORLD WIDE.
Nor are Catholics in this country in 2012 vilified anything like Muslims are.
(I know they used to be. I used to be one.)
Frankly I doubt Hogg would even know enough about the many different groups
which follow Islam in Australia.
They've come from many different countries, including Australia.
AH, SO YOU ADMIT THEY COME FROM DIFFERENT NATIONALITIES NOT A SINGLE RACE ?
"Muslim" has become a commonly-used all-purpose term of abuse & derision.
MAY I ALSO SUGGEST THAT “RACIST” HAS BECOME A COMMONLY-USED ALL-PURPOSE
TERM OF ABUSE & DERISION
Whether they know or even care whether the term is interpreted as
religious or racist is highly doubtful.
Nor do those offenders identify themselves as "Christians",
they paint themselves as patriotic Australians,
the real true blue ones ....
Quote:
Anyway, this has been done to death.
Oh I absolutely agree!
I'm absolutely sick of it.
I AM NOT SURPRISED YOU ARE SICK OF IT, TRYING TO DEFEND THE INDEFENCABLE.
If you hadn't waffled on about irrelevant freedom of speech "issues"
& carried on with hair-splitting argument about racism & religion,
it would have been considerably shorter.
Anything but actually
declare what you actually think of what Hogg did.
Whether you condone his actual words or not.
Anything but that.
FREEDOM OF SPEECH ISSUES ARE NEVER IRREVELANT
AND THE MEANING OF RACE AND RELIGION IS NOT HAIR-SPLITTING
PUT YOUR GLASSES ON AND GO BACK AND RE-READ THE POSTS .
Quote:
ps, I didn't go searching your past posts for evidence of racist comments..
No, of course you didn't!
You just somehow found yourself
on an entirely different thread, reading a post I wrote about people
queuing up to vote in an election 2010! (Which btw was a very nice moment.)
I AM NEW ON HERE AND HAVING BEEN LOOKING AT LOTS OF THREADS.
I OFTEN CUT AND PASTE INTERESTING ITEMS OR QUOTES.
BUT I MAY BE TEMPTED TO GO BACK AND LOOK NOW.
Then proceeded to imply that I was racist as a result of it.
MSOLGA, YOU HAVE A VERY INVENTIVE IMAGINATION. I HAVE NEVER CALLED YOU A RACIST.
YOU ARE NOT A RACIST, BUT I BELIEVE YOU PLAY THE "RACE" CARD ON RELIGIOUS MATTERS
TO WEAR AS A BADGE OF APROVAL.
Just curious: would you be able to identify, by sight, whether
a woman in traditional Muslim clothing was Lebanese, Iranian, Afghan,
or any other nationality?
I seriously doubt it.
NO I WOULDN'T. FRANKLY DON'T SEE THE POINT OF THE QUESTION.
Fair bit of cherry-picking going on in the quotes you used. Kind of changed the meaning somewhat.
You said it.
I was curious to read what I'd actually said on the Oz election thread after
this quote from Bootlace, in which I had apparently been racist:
ANOTHER MISCONCEPTION. NEVER SAID YOU WERE A RACIST.
Whatta nit picker
IF I AM THE PICKER, WHO IS THE NIT ?
He used my (conveniently edited) quote twice, to argue his "point".
And, as I've said twice - at least - you can't identify the country
of origin of any woman dressed in traditional Muslim garb, simply by
observation. I can't. You couldn't. And most likely neither could he.
Especially in a community like mine with so many Muslim migrants from
a variety of different middle eastern countries.
So why make a big deal
about the technicality of my using the term "Muslim" in that post then?
As if that proves some important point?
OK, YOU WIN. MUSLIM IS A NATIONALITY. I STAND CORRECTED.
I'LL INFORM THE CONSISE OXFORD DICTIONARY, MACQUARIE AND WEBSTERS TOMORROW
SO THEY CAN CORRECT THEIR ERRORS.
As I see things, he has not addressed the content of Hogg's comment at all ....
not from his own persecutive. Does he condone what Hogg said or not?
YOU ARE BEING INVENTIVE AGAIN, HAVE
ALREADY ANSWERED THAT IF YOU CARE TO CHECK
Does he acknowledge the harm & divisiveness such comment can cause?
He has conveniently steered clear of all that.
WHAT HARM ?
DO YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THE HARM YOU COULD CAUSE BY NOT ALLOWING COMMENTS
ADVERSE OR OTHERWISE ABOUT RELIGION BECAUSE IT WOULD BE RACIST TO DO SO?
Instead he has attempted to deflect any criticism from that comment
(apart from it having been written on the country's flag),
making excuses for Hogg , by arguing that his comments were based
on religious beliefs not race, or suggesting that criticism of Hogg
might lead to tougher "rules" on freedom of speech.
I NEVER MADE ANY EXCUSES FOR HOGG.
I NEVER SUGGESTED CRITICISM OF HOGG COULD LEAD TO RESTRICTIONS ON FREEDOM
OF SPEECH, WHAT I SAID WAS CALLING HIS CRITICISM "RACIST" IS WHAT COULD
CAUSE RESTRICTUIONS IN FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
PLAY THE RACE CARD TO STIFLE FREE SPEECH AND PRETTY SOON THERE IS NO FREE
SPEECH ABOUT ANY RELIGION.
At no point has he declared his own views on Muslims in this
discussion & that's what I would really like to know about.
I BET YOU WOULD. I HAVE VIEWS ABOUT ALL RELIGIONS
AND I'LL DISCUSS THEM IF AND WHEN I SEE FIT.
He knows my views, he knows yours, but is not declaring his own position.
I think it's fair enough for others to know what his position is, too,
in a discussion like this.
Fair enough?
ACTUALLY MSOLGA, I DON'T KNOW YOUR VIEWS ABOUT RELIGION, YOU HAVE NEVER SAID.
YOU HAVE SAID ABOUT THE LOVELY MUSLIMS YOU HAVE MET AND I
DON'T DOUBT THAT FOR A MINUTE. I HAVE MET MANY NICE ONES TOO.
BUT AS FOR RELIGION, YOU SAID YOU WAS ONCE A CATHOLIC.
I HARDLY SEE THAT AS KNOWING YOUR VIEWS ON RELIGION
You said you work in schools, so maybe you are a teacher ?
If so, please get your dictionary out
and see what RACE means and see what RELIGION means.
)
- but yes we do have a flag for each state and territory - and a bunch of other things too:
, after 3 days of Cairns-like weather, though a bit hotter, a couple of those days.
