Do you believe in God?

Really!

Just because you "believe" it?

How do you know they are real....or are you just guessing?

Like reading my star signs I tend topay attenion to the good points and discard the bad.I believe in things like ghosts because i think they are an amazing idea wether real or made up.

Let me ask you some simple questions Raheel:

You talk about Saudi and other islamic countries, why can't woman drive?

Why are boys valued more than girls?

Why do muslims still practice female circumcision?

Why does anyone still practice male circumcision?

If we are made in the image of God...why do we mutilate babies?

I'm not against Islam, Raheel. I'm against all religion.

I think the UK (like France) should ban all symbols of religious affiliation from schools.

I STRONGLY object to my granddaughter seeing veiled woman in the 21st Centuary! When she asks me why (as she did the other day) I was at a complete loss as to what to say...how would you explain it?

Just tell her it is a religious custom. What is so hard about that? It is the truth. You need not go into any great detail (depending on her age). What is so difficult about that. As she gets older, if she wishes to learn why that is a religious custom then she can read up on it.

Hope that solves your problem smorgs.

I understand what your saying...I'm finding hard to express myself, but I don't want her to think that because I say 'Religious Custom' it's alright, and by just saying that, it makes women with 'blacked out' faces acceptable...because to me it simply isn't acceptable.

Perhaps I should not come on threads like this. I usually avoid 'God threads) because I find I get emotional...and yes I see religion as ignorance, pure and simple. I abhor the damage, barbarity and abuse that is carried out in the name of religion. I particularly hate circumcision, consider it child abuse and the state a collusive abuser, I actively campaign against it.

I have lived as a moslem woman - let me tell you my life was a living hell, as it was for all my female friends. When I was pregnant, I prayed all the way through my pregnancy for a girl. If I had had a boy...I knew I would leave, rather than mutilate (what other word would anyone like to substetute to make them feel bettter) or inflict pain and discomfort on my baby soon after birth. I had a girl and left anyway.

Now I have a granddaughter, I want to tell her the truth...don't be afaraid of the bogeyman...unless he wears religious robes.

I had my son circumcised and in fact, most woman I know who had boys had it done as well, but you make us sound like monsters!

Why did you have him circumcised? The human body is a complex and balanced thing - why remove the foreskin? I can't comprehend it...why remove a piece of your precious baby...justify it to me.

My partner is circumcised - and he's still angry that it was 'done to him'

who told you i don't?

Women can drive.

Boys are not valued more than girls-
This one is just a stupid notion- its actually quite the reverse!
It says in the Quran that a girl brings happiness into the home whereas it says no such thing about boys.

What is wrong with curcumsision- healthwise- is there any healthrisk.
Infact curcumsision reduces a lot of health problems.
Do parents not have any rights over their children?

Muslims do not bel;ieve that we are made in Gods image.

What is wrong with veiled women!

When I see a veiled women it shows that this woman is taking control of her own life and not beng objectified by members of the opposite (or same?) sex.

I did it because the doctor recommended it and it was something that everyone did in my family.

I already had it out with a few people on Abuzz about that a few years back and they made me feel terrible, so I talked with my son who was 15 at that time and he told me that he was glad I had it done and that I had nothing to feel bad about.

I believe in God...and He believes in me....

NO!

If circumcision is a health practice... wouldn't not doing it, be worse than just a quick bit of pain to save more pain later on.

Do you take medicine? This is a health practice...is it not? It is like humans to alter ourselves, to become more healthy.



If there is a god(yes I believe) wouldn't it be ignorant to just say that he is not real, without really finding out?

frank keep these comments for the other debate!! :wink:

i am just telling material girl what she wants to know- whether or not people who believe in God also believe in ghosts and stuff.

the validity of such beliefs is a whole other topic

can i ask how it is healthy to have the foreskin cut off???
and in relation to god i believe each to there own i dont mind expressing my disbelief in god and dont mind people expressing there belief to me
but as of yet i cant see any evidence for the existence of a god of classical theism

there is about as much supporting it as there is fighting it so until people have genuine proof then i think that it should be left as a belief

i dunno what film this was from but it said summin like
god wants religion to be a thought somthing that might be not a belief as people die for what the believe and not for what they think

or summin along those line which is true how many wars have been religously based??

I do believe in God. I can't prove His existence beyond doubt, but I strongly believe that the leap of faith to athiesm is much greater than the one to God, based on all that I know and can observe.

this site may be useful

http://www.icon.co.za/~hugot/circum/Advantages.htm

and this site

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0950/is_6_111/ai_103990573

We can all post opposing sites to absurdity here, Raheel. I am trying to ask rational/logical questions regarding peoples choices. You call it circumcision, I call it genital mutilation.

I have a profound belief that this 'practise' is wrong. Just as strong a belief as yours in God.

I have the right to express that. Just as you do.

I will leave the thread now though. This is an emotional issue for me and I wouldn't want to upset anyone.

Also, I would like to point out that I have never (in any of my posts) implied that I am an atheist. You have 'assumed' it.

If you do reflect on your beliefs? And are not afraid of at least considering an opposing view...these maybe of interest to you:

Nocirc - This is a comprehensive site opposing both male and female circumcision. The site features relevant information on various issues related to circumcision. They provide educational information to whomever is interested in the topic. This site also lists books, videos, and other websites which address the subject of circumcision.

Forward - This organization is leading the fight against female genital mutilation (FGM). Female circumcision is a ritual practiced in many countries which needs to be abandoned. Forward USA is a support center for women who have been cruelly violated by circumcision.

Mothers Against Circumcision - The organization Mothers Against Circumcision believes that there is no medical benefit to routine circumcision. They make the point that expecting parents want and hope their baby will be born healthy with all his body parts intact, but once he is born, many of them will let the doctors surgically mutilate his genitals through circumcision. Parents shouldn't consent to their newborn baby boys being circumcised.

National Organization of Restoring Men - This organization provides support for men who have been circumcised and who may or may not wish to take action to restore their natural foreskins. They debate the myths of circumcision. They also describe the procedure of male circumcision in agonizing detail. Men can check out this organization if they are interested in restoring their natural foreskins.

Stop Male Infant Genital Mutilation - Money is at the root of many of the male circumcision procedures that are performed in the United States according to the webmaster. Hospitals make lots of easy money by selling surgically removed foreskins to biotechnology companies for their experiments. The parents of the circumcised babies don't see any of that money. Don't let hospitals make money off of your son's foreskin.

Circumcision Videos - This organization has videos which deal with the problems of both male and female circumcision. They view circumcision in America as a failed attempt to "cure" us from masturbation. They sell videos on restoring the foreskin. Other issues of circumcision are addressed in various videos.

4Restore - This is a website for men who regret being circumcised and want to do something about it. Go to this site if you want to restore your ill taken foreskin. They sell an FDA approved medical device to bring back what was cruelly taken from you.

Intact - Intact is a Canadian organization set up to eliminate non therapeutic male circumcision. Routine infant circumcision is a human rights abuse. There is a section on the site which provides assistance to those who want to help in the crusade against circumcision.

Noharmm Home Page - Noharmm stands for the National Organization to Halt the Abuse and Routine Mutilation of Males. This organization believes that healthy males don't need to be circumcised. They want to convince the public that genital integrity is a fundamental human right. Circumcision is a violation of that right.

Sex as Nature Intended It - This site and the book featured here postulate that sex is better both for the man and the woman when the man is uncircumcised. That is one of the purposes of the foreskin. Intact men are told how their foreskins can increase their pleasure and their partners' pleasure during sex. The book was written by Kristen O' Hara with Jeff O' Hara.

Attorneys for the Rights of the Child - This organization seeks to protect the rights of children to bodily integrity. They also seek legal action against those who have performed circumcision without parental permission or who injured or killed a baby while performing circumcision. If you want to sue for damages after you or your child was involuntarily circumcised, then you can check out this site.

Doctors Opposing Circumcision - This is a site for physicians who are opposed to circumcision.