8
   

Do you think AI (artificial intelligence) is something to be feared?

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2017 01:35 pm
@Olivier5,
Interesting as I see driverless cars as being a basic, baby step in the AI world.

So infant AI is perfect for driverless cars Smile


It's been possible for years, but it's hard to get past the $$$ auto manufacturers will lose long-term as people move away from individual car ownership and toward communal driverless vehicles (not just cars).

It's like black boxes in cars. The technology was there for decades before auto manufacturers began to use it regularly - and more years before it became public knowledge.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2017 02:02 pm
@maporsche,
Oh you do. Lives depend on the quality of that code. It's a bit more consequential than a poor google translation.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2017 02:09 pm
@Olivier5,
It also significantly easier than language translation.

Seriously...they're actually doing this now. Fully automated cars driving millions of miles.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2017 02:11 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

I see AI as being in its infancy. It's not yet a mature technology IMO.


Your cell phone says otherwise. Are you using Siri?

When you do a Google Search, or talk to your phone, or get advertisements that are tailored to you, you are using AI.

AI is already here. It is mature enough to be a commercial success that is pretty widely accepted in the marketplace.
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2017 05:08 pm
On the other hand, what if machines become smarter and smarter and we become very reliant on them, and then eventually, they become so smart that they decide they are better off without us and eliminate us?
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2017 05:31 pm
@maxdancona,
No, I don't talk to Siri. And the ads I get through these magic google algorithms are not the stuff I want.

An interesting take on the subject (short):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=I6sWZMR9OZM&t=32s
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Dec, 2017 03:15 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
infant AI is perfect for driverless cars 

... in toddler parks, yes?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 23 Dec, 2017 08:50 am
@ehBeth,
AI has been around since the mid 1950s. The term "infant AI" makes as much sense as "infant white-out" (white-out was invented in 1953). AI technology was invented about the same time the TV remotes were invented.

Since that time we have used AI for image processing (since the 1960s) and Avionics (since the 1970s) for speech recognition (since the 1970s) and for internet search (since the 1980s).

Artificial Intelligence is not a new technology.

maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Dec, 2017 08:58 am
@maxdancona,
I think the problem in this discussion is that people are confusing Artificial Intelligence with Artificial Sentience.

Artificial Intelligence is a technology that has been around for 65 years. It is used now in everything from Internet Search to popping up those little circles around faces on your camera to flying military fighter jets. Artificial Intelligence is not magic. It is math and engineering. You can go to college and learn about it. The field is steadily advancing... but the basic techniques have been around for decades.

Artificial sentience (the idea that a computer can have a will of its own, or an understanding of its existence outside of that programmed by humans). In my opinion, we a very long way off from artificial sentience. Some people are claiming it it imminent... but there are no peer reviewed papers on how to reach this point. No one has a viable design. At this point it is science fiction.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2017 05:12 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
an engineering prof of mine was working on a concept like that 40+ years ago. there's obviously much better technology available to make it happen now


holiday season so I had a chance to catch up with news from my old school

Beyond Driven

interesting stuff related to the recent discussion

__

from one of the links at that page

https://uwaterloo.ca/stories/take-look-under-hood-autonomous-car

Quote:
Simulation allows researchers to intentionally create danger, including crashes, to speed up the learning process, but gaining enough confidence in Autonomoose to actually drive it in autonomous mode on a public road – a quiet, two-kilometre loop in an industrial park – isn’t expected to happen until this fall.

Researchers would be thrilled to build on that milestone, likely to be a first in Canada, by letting the car drive itself to campus through signalled intersections and roundabouts on multi-lane city streets from a test track several kilometres away by the end of the year.

With even more daunting challenges ahead, such as how to train a car to decide between hitting an object that suddenly appears in its path and risking a rear-end collision by slamming on the brakes, Czarnecki is also dubious of the most optimistic time estimates for full commercial automation.

Significant deployment is likely 10 years away

“Realistically, I think that within the next 10 years we will have some significant deployment of these cars on the road,” he says. “What will happen in the shorter term is really difficult to say.”

Despite the tremendous promise of AI, Fischmeister has a fundamental concern: understanding how the computer brains in control of vehicles will respond when confronted with new situations, as they inevitably will be.

As a result, his focus is on developing separate software to monitor those systems and put vehicles into safe mode – stopping or pulling over to the side of the road, for instance – when things seem to be going awry.

“Computers are stupid,” says Fischmeister, also an electrical and computer engineering professor. “They only do what you tell them to do and nothing extra. It’s the same thing for systems that rely solely on learning. At the moment, they only behave based on what they have learned.

“I like technology and I believe learning-based systems are essential for autonomous vehicles, but I point out problems – and I’m curious how people will solve them.”


reading pages like this are about the only time I wish I was 18 or 19 again
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2017 05:50 pm
@ehBeth,
That's saying what I'm saying: we're not there yet. And to say that we will be there in ten years is in my opinion very optimistic.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2018 01:57 am
Quote:
Uber suspends use of self-driving cars

Ride-sharing giant Uber said it is suspending use of self-driving cars after one of the vehicles struck and killed a pedestrian in the US state of Arizona.

The Uber vehicle was in autonomous mode, with an operator behind the wheel, when it hit a woman walking in the street in the city of Tempe, according to the San Francisco-based company.

The victim was hospitalized and later died from her injuries.

"Our hearts go out to the victim's family," an Uber spokesperson said. "We are fully cooperating with local authorities in their investigation of this incident."

Uber said it had temporarily halted its use of self-driving cars for testing or customer rides in Tempe, Pittsburgh, Toronto, and San Francisco.

Tempe is one of just two cities -- along with Pittsburgh -- where the ride-sharing firm has been using autonomous vehicles as part of its regular passenger.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2018 04:01 am
@Olivier5,
Well, after millions of miles driven, it was bound to happen.

A woman, outside a crosswalk was hit by a car and died. That’s never happened to a human driver.

We’ll get more details but since the human in the car didn’t slam on the brakes, it was likely unavoidable.
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2018 04:15 am
@maporsche,
This was probably avoidable. Most accidents are. For all we know, the guy behind the wheel might just have been distracted. And of course it happens to normal dudes driving normal cars too.

As I said before, driving has life and death consequences. It's far more complicated and potentially impactful that automated translation. It's hard to kill someone with the wrong prepositional phrase, far easier with a car. Computers are not smart enough to drive.

Note that automated cars could also be loaded with explosives and programmed to drive through a busy street and Ka-Boom. Or just be programmed to run over people... They're more of a hazard than a convenience, me think.
maporsche
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2018 09:38 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Note that automated cars could also be loaded with explosives and programmed to drive through a busy street and Ka-Boom. Or just be programmed to run over people... They're more of a hazard than a convenience, me think.


Wow...you sound like a crackpot.

Why wait for automated cars when you can just set one up via remote control?
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2018 09:54 am
@maporsche,
And you sound like a broken record. Try and pay attention. Remote control vs programmed makes very little actual difference. The point is that driver-less cars will make car bombing easier.
maporsche
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2018 10:32 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

And you sound like a broken record. Try and pay attention. Remote control vs programmed makes very little actual difference. The point is that driver-less cars will make car bombing easier.


Remote control is here today and can be bought by anyone and controlled by anyone who has played a video game. No need to wait however long for automation to work.

I'll keep my eye open for remote control car bombs.
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2018 10:46 am
@maporsche,
You mean remote control of the bomb, not of the car, I suppose? That's nothing new, it's a banal modus operandi, only marginally more sophisticated than a time bomb. It can be discovered and diffused. In contrast, a driveless car could deliver a sizeable bomb right when and where you want it.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2018 11:08 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

You mean remote control of the bomb, not of the car, I suppose? That's nothing new, it's a banal modus operandi, only marginally more sophisticated than a time bomb. It can be discovered and diffused. In contrast, a driveless car could deliver a sizeable bomb right when and where you want it.


Haha....give me a break. A parked car in a major city would go undiscovered. Here in Chicago, parking garages are underneath dozens and dozens of huge buildings. You can park you car on any major street and leave it for 2 hours before even having to pay up the meter (which can no be done via a mobile phone app from a remote distance)

I'm having a hard time thinking of a situation where a bomb in a driverless car can be more damaging than a parked one.


I can't believe that we're even having this discussion, haha.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2018 11:22 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Remote control vs programmed makes very little actual difference. The point is that driver-less cars will make car bombing easier.

I think that is somewhat like saying we shouldn't build roads because that could lead to easier car bombing or we shouldn't build cars because that will make horse bombing so much easier. Sometimes we ignore all the potential benefits of something because of a fear that something else might get infinitesimally worse. I'm sure someone will eventually use a driverless car as a car bomb, but I don't spend a lot of time worrying about the extremely infrequent car bomb as it is and it's going to be a while before driverless cars are cheap enough for bombers to consider them disposable.
 

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