How can god have a "plan" for anyone?

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So why do we die? How is our death our fault?

When Adam sinned against God, He cast him out of the Garden of Eden and pronounced a death sentence, if you will. This isn't surprising, considering what God said in Genesis 2:7-- But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.[/u]

But it is not just Adam (since I would expect your response would be, "Well I'm not Adam, how are his actions my fault?"). The Bible says that we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God.

As in Romans 5:12-- Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

We've all sinned, we have all broken the law-- broken the ten commandments and the law that flows from them-- and we all deserve not only to die, but to be condemned eternally. Lucky for us God sent His Son to die for us, that whoever accepts Him as their Savior (because he is saving them, literally) "shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

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What about the tsunami? How can you attribute that responsibility to man?

Well, like David Fernandes was quoted in my post above: "I think we, as mere mortals, must reconcile ourselves to not understanding everything fully or having foolproof explanations to God's perspective on the tsunami. After all only He is all knowing."

But in an attempt to explain it, one can easily look at man's actions. Again, this tragedy cannot be attributed to God, but to man. Man has always tried to conquer and tamper with nature. Take Cuffe Parade, for instance. Has not man reclaimed land that we live on, there? Has not encroached upon the sea? The sea will now encroach upon those that encroached upon it.

You have to understand that the sea is is indifferent. It will not discriminate in killing. We are proud of the fact that we have made scientific advancements, of being a nuclear power. But don't forget that we have often destroyed nature in the process, which is mightier than us. So don't think there's not consequences for your actions.

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By the way, being arrant doesn't help to prove your points...

I'll tone it down, then. Just trying to make the posts a little more charged, rather than just some dull and tedious essay-type lectures.

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God told me that every time you call someone borderline retarded, especially when you disguise the statement as a question, a cherub is cast from heaven and raped by Thok the thorn cocked demon... Crying or Very sad

and yes by the way, Occom Bill is what they call mildly retarded, so your thinly disguised insult is hurtful to everyone here, and of course very painful for the cast out cherub. God told me to tell you to think before you speak.

Little OBill, me and God have your back.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

God told me that every time you call someone borderline retarded, especially when you disguise the statement as a question, a cherub is cast from heaven and raped by Thok the thorn cocked demon...
and yes by the way, Occom Bill is what they call mildly retarded, so your thinly disguised insult is hurtful to everyone here, and of course very painful for the cast out cherub. God told me to tell you to think before you speak.

Little OBill, me and God have your back.

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I think that's a good kind of nuts he's got going on there and I'd lay money on it; this obsession is better for him than the one that preceded it, so I wouldn't wish to take it if I could.

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I have to learn to do what BPB does and just stop trying to understand these extreme religious nuts...instead, I'll just spend the rest of my life trying to understand all of the other Atookaians.

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Individual wrote:

I have to learn to do what BPB does and just stop trying to understand these extreme religious nuts...instead, I'll just spend the rest of my life trying to understand all of the other Atookaians.

God is speaking to all of you in whatever plain language you understand.....God has asked me to tell you that's His job and He's doing it....now it's your job to pay attention to Him. Naturally there are a few things He keeps between Himself and a few of us key people, but other than that......

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A Plan is an idea. Does it have to be written in stone. Can it not be subject to change, (even if it's God's). Did Moses not get God to Change His mind. Perhaps there is a Beginning Point and an Ending point. Knowing something is going to happen does not necessarily mean you cause it.

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Rex the Wonder Squirrel wrote:

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But if you intend to claim millions of people starving to death, the holocaust and slavery are both part of that plan and not evil

Okay, maybe you're not borderline retarded...maybe you just have bad eyesight. Did you not read what I posted up there? God has a plan for everyone's life-- it is our choice to follow that plan or reject it.

If you really did take the time to look up God as understood by Christians, then you would know that He does not destroy life, but rather gives it in abundance. The Holocaust and the tsunami cannot be attributed to God, for they occurred because of man. God doesn't cause these destructions-- rather, he permits them, and brings good out of them

ok squirrel now you appear to be borderline retarded if you think that man cuased that tsunami. And also if you read the bible at all you could find a lot about how god does not give life in abundance but destroys it with anger. (ex. the flood and all the wars he was involved with)

p.s. here are some good links that you might need to read :
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/1019/perfectbeing/perfectbeing.html
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/1019/Omniscience.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/1019/Unchanging_God.htm

I dare you to read these links

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Obviously man did not create the tsunami (must've been the Bush Admin. Mad

). What he's trying to say is that the elements of nature do not discriminate, they are going to happen wether a person is standing there or not.

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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:25 pm Post subject:
I have to learn to do what BPB does and just stop trying to understand these extreme religious nuts...instead, I'll just spend the rest of my life trying to understand all of the other Atookaians.

Maybe it's just people defending their faith from people who don't want to believe in a god that tells them what they are doing is wrong.

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Man proposes God disposes...

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There will be heirarchy in heaven, that is His plan. A person who believes in God will go to heaven, but the person who believes in God, and works harder on living for God in this life...will have a place in heaven closer to God. Everyones life will be judged by God, and he will decide who deserves special priveleges

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Distracto:

Can you give me some scripture references on this
heirarchy thing?

THANKS

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thunder_runner32 wrote:

Obviously man did not create the tsunami (must've been the Bush Admin. ). What he's trying to say is that the elements of nature do not discriminate, they are going to happen wether a person is standing there or not.

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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:25 pm Post subject:
I have to learn to do what BPB does and just stop trying to understand these extreme religious nuts...instead, I'll just spend the rest of my life trying to understand all of the other Atookaians.

Maybe it's just people defending their faith from people who don't want to believe in a god that tells them what they are doing is wrong.

No its not that I don't want to believe in god Its that I am not aware of him ... at all

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Ip,

what God are you not aware of? Rav Kook suggested that atheism helps theists shatter the idols they have created by calling a specific understanding of God "God!"

May all be a bunch of nonsense but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Dauer

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dauer wrote:

Ip,

what God are you not aware of? Rav Kook suggested that atheism helps theists shatter the idols they have created by calling a specific understanding of God "God!"

May all be a bunch of nonsense but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Dauer

Its not nonsense .... I see it now ...... Shocked

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I believe in God as the unfolding of history, be it chaotic or good. Insofar as God is that, everything "happens for a reason", which means only that everything happens because it happens. I am strongly against any belief that implies that God, a benevolent omnipotent and conscious ruler, wills the death and suffering of countless people because it is, despite our lack of understanding, "good." I see this as complete nonsense. Take Voltaire's Candide. There is nothing "good" about God willing a church to collapse on a holy day, crushing all of his worshippers in the church. This is Ivan Karamazov's problem, as a literary reference. It is not that I disagree with the idea of God, but the widespread evil in the world makes it evident that He does not exist as more than an Ideal of how the world should be. This in now way belittles Him.

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duce wrote:

Distracto:

Can you give me some scripture references on this
heirarchy thing?

THANKS

I will work on gathering up all of the scriptures that prove it to me. It will take me some time, but i really needed to organize my understandings if i am going to be telling them to others Very Happy

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Distracto wrote: