DO YOU BELIEVE IN FATE- DESTINY??

I don't see why first cause is an issue, it has nothing to do with our universe. It has everything to do with the previous universe if such a thing existed. If cause and effect have been in operation for every moment the universe has existed, then as I see it, times that may or may not exist outside of that are not relevant.

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byrnfri wrote:

i fully believe in fate but think we each make our own destiny.

many a time something's happened to me which is fate driven.

I looked both Fate and Destiny up in the dictionary, this is what I found:

Fate: Fate is a power that is believed to control events.
Destiny: Destiny is the force which some people believe controls everyone's life.

Are these two not desimilar? How can you believe in one and not the other?

Personally I believe that there can be no force which controls our every move, thought, and feeling. If you research things properly fate only exists because people make it happen, they hear that something will, and so they make it happen.

Free-will: If you do something of your own free will, you do it by choice and not because you are forced to.
This is the kind of life I would rather believe in, not some controlled life with boundaries.

It was not by fate that millions were killed by the tsunami which hit Asia, what kind of force would do something so horrific? It was by free will that these people were in that place at that time.
It was also free will which caused the person to step infront of the bus without looking-referring back to the first post.

I also believe that Deja vu is a hoax... :wink:

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Crazynutt wrote:

byrnfri wrote:
i fully believe in fate but think we each make our own destiny.

many a time something's happened to me which is fate driven.

I looked both Fate and Destiny up in the dictionary, this is what I found:

Fate: Fate is a power that is believed to control events.
Destiny: Destiny is the force which some people believe controls everyone's life.

Are these two not desimilar? How can you believe in one and not the other?

Personally I believe that there can be no force which controls our every move, thought, and feeling. If you research things properly fate only exists because people make it happen, they hear that something will, and so they make it happen.

Free-will: If you do something of your own free will, you do it by choice and not because you are forced to.
This is the kind of life I would rather believe in, not some controlled life with boundaries.

It was not by fate that millions were killed by the tsunami which hit Asia, what kind of force would do something so horrific? It was by free will that these people were in that place at that time.
It was also free will which caused the person to step infront of the bus without looking-referring back to the first post.

I also believe that Deja vu is a hoax... :wink:

How do you know it wasn't fate?? Certain people are meant to die at certain times while others are meant to survive.. who are you to decide that it ws free will?? I have no explaination as to why the tsunami hit but it happened be it free-will, fate, conincidence, whatever it was... Have you ever had the feeling that something bad is going to happen... so you stop to think and then almost get huirt or killed?? But because you stopped you went unharmed?? If you can tell me that that has never happened to you, ever... then believe waht you want....

But I don't want to get on the subject of free-will.... All I want to know is whether or not you believe in fate/destiny

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Quote:

I don't see why first cause is an issue, it has nothing to do with our universe. It has everything to do with the previous universe if such a thing existed. If cause and effect have been in operation for every moment the universe has existed, then as I see it, times that may or may not exist outside of that are not relevant.

If there is such a thing as a First Cause, then there is a real possibility of a thing causing itself to do something.

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What makes you think that it was fate which killed all of those people in the tsunami?
I think there are too many variables in the world for fate to exist...

I also think that free will must go with the conversation of fate and destiny.
They are all part of the same subject. Just as fate and destiny go hand in hand so does free will.
If you don't have one, you must have the other. I think free will is here to stay, this is what I believe.

Maybe it is just that for me it is too confusing to think of how it would be possible for something to make a life for each and every person, before they are born...You see for this to work, before the days of Adam and Eve, before Earth was created, before anything and even before that, there had to be something making our lives. Everything down to the last millimetre of grass growing on this exact second, had to be pre-planned. I really don't see how this would be possible. It is like someone, way back then has planned this very conversation I am typing at the moment along with everything else happening everywhere else, which all at many points in time, interlock and cross paths.

Even for the wildest imagination, it is not possible to think of such a great force planning everything before even the force itself was in existence.

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how do you know the future isn't occuring somewhere else right now? It could be on another dimension... anything is possible... maybe we already had this conversation... kinda like deja vu... you feel like something has already happened! ??

Are you saying that deja vu is real?! How could there be a connection between people from different universes? Could I have some evidence?

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I believe in fate and destiny, but only as viewed from the present in the direction of the past. Some know it better as "history". The future hasn't happened yet so if fate does exist then it doesn't exist yet.

I agree totally.

This is what I think of the future...that one Enya song...who can say but time?

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Crazynutt wrote:

What makes you think that it was fate which killed all of those people in the tsunami?
I think there are too many variables in the world for fate to exist...

I also think that free will must go with the conversation of fate and destiny.
They are all part of the same subject. Just as fate and destiny go hand in hand so does free will.
If you don't have one, you must have the other. I think free will is here to stay, this is what I believe.

Maybe it is just that for me it is too confusing to think of how it would be possible for something to make a life for each and every person, before they are born...You see for this to work, before the days of Adam and Eve, before Earth was created, before anything and even before that, there had to be something making our lives. Everything down to the last millimetre of grass growing on this exact second, had to be pre-planned. I really don't see how this would be possible. It is like someone, way back then has planned this very conversation I am typing at the moment along with everything else happening everywhere else, which all at many points in time, interlock and cross paths.

Even for the wildest imagination, it is not possible to think of such a great force planning everything before even the force itself was in existence.

I didn't say I thought it was fate that caused the tsunami.... I said "how do know it wasn't fate??" Then I said "Who are You to decide it was free will" Then I continued to day " I have NO explanation as to why the tsunami hit be it FREE WILL, FATE, Coinincidence, Whatever it was" Also I didn't say that free will didn't relate to fate.. but I don't want this topic to turn into a free will topic.. they already have one!!

I'll make a deal with you, we can continue this conversation when you can 100% prove to me that fate doesn't exist... can you??

You said it was too confusing (maybe) for you to think of how something could plan our entire life... well it is confusing for me too but I still believe.. how did we get here period?? Be it god or the big bang.. well then how did god or the big bang get here?? How do you now that maybe you weren't programmed to believe in free-will... maybe that is part of your fate??

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I'll make a deal with you, we can continue this conversation when you can 100% prove to me that fate doesn't exist... can you??

I don't think there is any evidence for it, or against it. Isn't it just an idea that someone made up? If it seems that we have free will, and we can't prove otherwise...isn't logical to assume that we really do have free-will... or it really doesn't matter. For instance, in my life, I can't think of a single moment when either fate or destiny took charge of my life, if I sit on my couch, fate isn't going to make me get up. The way that I can tell, is that my own energy is used to create an idea and an action that make me move...it's all contious thought...I don't pass out and just let fate carry me around. Razz

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Perhaps it's possible that the whole idea of fate and destiny come from looking back into the past and seeing what other paths may have led to this point, or may have led a different way; what tiny change may have changed the world, what massive change would have made little difference. It's fun to consider, but there is no evidence at all to suggest that any path is already prepared in the future!

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good ****
The only thing i believe in now is myself Evil or Very Mad

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Fate yes, destiny no. I know that sounds weird but I connect the word fate with coincidence and "meant to be" which I find acceptable, but destiney is like the grand-design, and you cannot escape - The Matrix (?!)- which I find disturbing. x_x

Everything happens for a reason.

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I agree, everything does happen for a reason... but isn't that destiny then? It is destined to happen!

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I don't personally think so, because it happens because it's meant to happen - like maybe I was meant to be suddenly curious and reply to this post, but I don't think it's destined that I WILL reply to this post. Ultimately, the choice is mine. But I guess you can argue about that x_x The only thing I don't like about destiny is that it implies some sort of superior power - God, as some call it - and his grand design. Everything's set in place so don't you dare try to escape it. (Final Destination?!) Or maybe I just watch too many films. x_x

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Nup, I'm having none of it. If even one tiny thing in anyone's life is already decided, then nothing I do is of any consequence at all. The future has not yet happened and nothing NOTHING can already be there. It's just silly.

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Why can't there be both?

Some lives are predestined. If you grow up in many places, if you come from a family of farmers, you're most likely to be a farmer. Free will is in what you choose to do with said farm. Many things in this world are pre-destined, many lives are predicable.

Having said the above, people do break from the norm. Why can't someone make all the decisions, plan for the future and have the rug pulled out from under them? (9/11) Fate and Free Will.

The accident may not have been an accident, it may have been caused by careless driving or any number of variables, choices... but a chance meeting could be fate and the beginning of a future unplanned and unpredicted.

As for Deja-vu...it has to be experienced to be believed, I guess.

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nope, still not buying it. If Hans Zimmer is pre-destined to take out the best soundtrack oscar in 2009, then that means that nothing I do can prevent it. No matter how good my soundtrack is, I can't beat him? Nope, even one tiny speck of pre-destiny ruins all free-will for everyone entirely, you can't have it both ways.

Sometimes things look that way though, but that is ALWAYS brought about by looking at the past and events that HAVE OCCURED through the lens of the present.

A predictable future (that I will come to work again tomorrow) has nothing to do with pre-destiny at all. I can change that anytime I want. So can the guy up the street with a gun in my face. An accident can be an accident or not an accident, and if you left home five minutes later it may or may not still have happened. Neither result would prove that it was "slated" to occur.

Everyone experiences Dejavu and everytime I get I try to "remember" what is going to happen next, but I can't. I just get the "feeling" that it's happened before. The theory is that it happens when you're tired, and your brain is too slow to process stuff your senses are relating making it "seem" like memory rather than unique experience.

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So you can 100% tell me that you were not meant to write on this topic... that the path you are on hasn't already been choosen for you? Maybe by you writing here, it will have impacted someones elses life and that person will then do the same to someone else..... If you can prove to me that fate doesn't exist then like I've said before, you will be correct and I will be wrong.... I can't prove that it exists but I can still believe... from the things I have seen and experienced and from what dreams tell me, I strongly believe in fate. To me Destiny and Fate are basically the same thing.. fate says it is meant to happen and destiny is what causes it to happen, they work together... Free- will to me, is just denial from others.... but maybe you think fate is denial for me.... What I believe is that when we die, we just start the same life all over again and that is when free will happend.. before we start our "new" life, we choose which paths we will take this time and what we will do differently... making our minds stronger, our brains can hold so much yet we barely use any of it... who's to say that maybe we don't have information from our past lives stored in there..... it's just my beliefs... then again look at my name, I am crazie!

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Ceili wrote:

Why can't there be both?

Some lives are predestined. If you grow up in many places, if you come from a family of farmers, you're most likely to be a farmer. Free will is in what you choose to do with said farm. Many things in this world are pre-destined, many lives are predicable.

Having said the above, people do break from the norm. Why can't someone make all the decisions, plan for the future and have the rug pulled out from under them? (9/11) Fate and Free Will.

The accident may not have been an accident, it may have been caused by careless driving or any number of variables, choices... but a chance meeting could be fate and the beginning of a future unplanned and unpredicted.

As for Deja-vu...it has to be experienced to be believed, I guess.

That makes sense to me I think....if you're bill gates son you probably could just say **** work and not doing anything..... if I was in the position though ..... imagine the opportunites to explore the world, learning, and partying Idea

...... but hey a man can make his own destiny ,..... <That is the truth for this man>.........

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Crazielady, you is just crazy lady !!! Laughing

But you are right, I cannot know that everything I do is not already decided.

I do hope that you are %100 wrong though, because I can't imagine anything worse! What would be the point in doing anything?

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Well if you don't know the truth Eorl then why do I need to be wrong, it doesn't matter either way we are gonna die... so be it destiny or free-will, we all have the same fate in the end...

And you are right, I AM A CRAZIE LADY!!

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DO YOU BELIEVE IN FATE- DESTINY??

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