9
   

Catalonia wants out; Spain says no

 
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Oct, 2017 06:02 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

EU: Beatings and attacks were legal.

UN: We’re investigating beatings and attacks.

Rajoy: We acted serenely.

Facts and video evidence: Rajoy is a goddam liar.

EU: We support Rajoy.



https://youtu.be/R8zNgP3imlI

http://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-defends-use-of-proportionate-force-in-catalonia/amp/

The EU approves beatings of Catalans.


Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Oct, 2017 06:33 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
The EU approves beatings of Catalans.
Perhaps you didn't read your own link: it was about a debate in the EU-Parliament yesterday.
Here is the full press release: Catalonia: Political group leaders discuss situation with Frans Timmermans

If the "EU approves" something, it is done by the European Council - I doubt that all heads of state or government of the 28 member states had agreed here.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Oct, 2017 06:53 am
@Lash,
According to your link the EU vice president Frans Timmermans described the Spanish Government's actions as proportionate on Wednesday, (yesterday.) Yet your post made these claims on Monday.

Even if your original post did refer to Frans Timmermens it would be one hell of a stretch to say the EU approved of beatings. Your post didn't, it was two days ahead, you're making **** up.

Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Oct, 2017 08:12 am
@izzythepush,
No, I just don’t allow people to dodge accountability with transparent euphemisms.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Oct, 2017 08:38 am
@Lash,
No you make **** up. This thread is about Catalonia but you have an axe to grind against the EU so you wrote about that instead and made things up to fit your own narrative.

Frans Timmermans is not the EU. He is one person with one opinion, and even he did support beatings, he described the Spanish governments actions as proportionate, not the individual actions of some Spanish police officers.

You've already started a thread about the EU, why not confine your vitriol to that thread and leave this thread to what's going on in Catalonia.

You're not interested in the truth, just spouting anti EU propaganda. What's going on is a Spanish issue, the EU is a marginal player at best.

Word of advice, when your lies are found out don't compound things by making up more ****, you're already looking foolish enough as it is.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Oct, 2017 08:39 am
@Lash,
To which accountability by whom do you refer here?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Oct, 2017 09:11 pm
@izzythepush,
I disapprove, heartily, of the EU’s complicit positive reaction to Spain’s draconian crackdown on the Catalans.

You don’t.

I own my opinion.

Own yours.

glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Oct, 2017 09:22 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Centrox, did you travel to Catalonia for the protest? What is the basis of your interest??


How bout you Lash, what’s your interest? Still in mourning for Franco?
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2017 12:27 am
@Lash,
I approve of the truth. You're not interested in that, only making **** up and wildly exaggerating things.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2017 12:29 am
@glitterbag,
I don't think Lash knows about Catalonia's anti fascist past. When she finds out that the Catalonians have been flying anti fascist flags expect her allegiances to change.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2017 02:05 am
@izzythepush,
Actually, I do wonder what Lash knows about the EU, EU-laws, the Spanish constitution, regions in Spain and their legal status, ...

Teachers.

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2017 02:06 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Josep Lluis Trapero, the head of Catalonian regional police known as the Mossos, appeared in front of the National Court in Madrid on Friday morning to explain his role in demonstrations in Barcelona on September 20-21.
(The allegations of sedition the police chief faces are based on the Spanish Penal Code, which defines the charge in article 544 as public actions that prevent the application of law through force or illegal means.)

The court summons is the latest event in a rapidly deteriorating standoff between the central government in Madrid and the Catalan secessionists.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2017 02:51 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The fact that she knows very little is not disputed. What is in contention is the fanciful notion that she's actually interested in learning. I honestly don't think she is, she's just looking for snippets of information to use against the EU.

This disingenuous approach is why I've stayed off her threads on Brexit and the EU.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2017 04:05 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
she's just looking for snippets of information to use against the EU.
Here (and there) it does definitely look like it.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2017 04:23 am
The Spanish government may have the feeling that they are fighting in the last ditch. They cannot acquiesce in the departure of Catalunya without, at least, the Basque separatists attempting to go the same route. When Isabella completed the reconquista in 1492, she then required all "Moors" (moriscos in Spanish and meaning Muslims) and Jews to convert or depart. Collectively known as the conversos, those who remained were soon victimized, and probably too late, realized they had made a serious mistake.

However, since that time, many Muslims have filtered back into Spain, especially from Spanish Morocco, established as a protectorate in 1912. The Spanish civil war of the 20th century, in fact, began in Spanish Morocco, with troops lead by Francisco Franco, many of them Moroccan Muslims. So there is a good possibility that Andalusia would agitate to secede as well. Galicia is recognized as a region comprising the homeland of a distinct nationality, too, and they were never happy about being conquered by Carlos, Isabella's grandson.

I have no doubt that the government in Madrid would see this as opening a Pandora's box which would lead to the disintegration of the Spanish nation.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2017 04:45 am
The EU's own statements are casting the EU in a negative light.

I claimed my bias in the opening post, but invited anyone who can defend the EU on points raised to have at it.

I notice the only defense available for some is to attack the messenger.

The more the EU shows support for violent crackdown, the more critics you'll have to attack.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2017 04:55 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
The more the EU shows support for violent crackdown, the more critics you'll have to attack.
Where does "the EU" (sic!!!) show "support for violent crackdown" (sic!!!)?

As said: try to get educate about what "the EU" is (and read the Spanish constitution and criminal code) for a start.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2017 04:57 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
I have no doubt that the government in Madrid would see this as opening a Pandora's box which would lead to the disintegration of the Spanish nation.
I think so, too. And this might happen elsewhere (not only in the EU and Europe) as well.

We (not only we living in the EU and Europe) perhaps really might see a growing secessionist movement towards a sitution how the world looked in the late Medieval Age/early Modern Time.

Will be interesting here in Germany: list of former German states
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2017 05:03 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Where does "the EU" (sic!!!) show "support for violent crackdown" (sic!!!)?


Don't hold your breath. When Lash is challenged about **** she makes up she references texts that aren't there or do not contain made up ****, posts links to magazine subscriptions and throws mud. And then she tells more lies.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Oct, 2017 05:22 am
@izzythepush,
The situation in Catalonia has been put on hold: the nationalists are manoeuvring themselves more and more into a dead end, the central government has narrowed more and more its room for manoeuvre. (See: article 155 Spanish constitution)
It's high time for a mediator.

As much as the Catalan government calls for the EU (from which Catalonia has benefited even more than the rest of Spain since its accession in 1986) to act as a mediator, the EU cannot tolerate the threatened declaration of independence.
It would thus show the radical forces among the separatist dreamers in Europe (Basques, Corsicans and others) a promising path to success, which would ultimately lead again to the creation of small states in Europe - as in the Medieval Ages and later. (See for Germany: here - Set already gave the view of Spain)
0 Replies
 
 

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