If god created the universe out of nothing, than what existed before that? JUST god? It must have been pretty lonely. If god had always existed than he technically slacked off for an infinite amount of time before he decided to make a universe. On the other hand if god had a beginning too than he must have instantly created the universe, because if he's allknowing, he wouldn't have needed to plan anything first, and there would be nothing to gain in putting it off. And if god did pop out of nowhere, along with his powers and allknowingness, then his powers wouldn't really be very impressive, because the ability to make stuff out of nothing would have to exist as a law of nature for him to come into being. And don't worry, I know my reasoning has huge flaws, but it was still fun to write. I had some free time to kill.
G-d
What did g-d do before he created the universe?
Did he sit there in space,
With sword of solid silver,
Robes flapping,
Bored for all eternity?
Does he have other experiments?
Like blue long legged aliens, trollomping around,
Saying his name with each exhaling breath,
A closet of approving yes- organisms?
Did he experiment on the dinosaurs,
Moving them around with his chubby hand,
Making them snort funny noises,
Until he got bored and brought the ice age?
What if this g-d grows tired of us,
No matter how much we pray?
What if he wants to start another experiment,
In the earth Bunsen-burner lab,
Us mere test - monkeys in the sea of planets?
-M. Frost
SCoates
I dont know what existed before God created the Universe, maybe GOD???? He is eternal. You cant say time in the same sense with God. He is not limited to time or sapce.
Portal,
Nice what ever it is.
QKid wrote:SCoates
I dont know what existed before God created the Universe, maybe GOD???? He is eternal. You cant say time in the same sense with God. He is not limited to time or sapce.
And of course, there simply may not be a God.
We don't really know, do we?
Well some say we do and others say we dont. Nowadays the majority seems to be on the dont. But what I have realized is that they cant come up with proof/evidence either to show there isnt a God.
But I say we do know. And I have arrived to that from things I have found out about the Quran.
QKid wrote:Well some say we do and others say we dont. Nowadays the majority seems to be on the dont. But what I have realized is that they cant come up with proof/evidence either to show there isnt a God.
But I say we do know. And I have arrived to that from things I have found out about the Quran.
Your first statement is right - there is no evidence. Your viewpoint is based on personal feelings, which is not the same as universal truth. As I have said in the Christian threads, there is nothing wrong with you studying the Quaran (Being Islamic I assume) as long as it does not cause you to interfere with the lives of others. Ex- force religion on them, opress men/women/children, try to stop scientific discovery, wage religious wars, etc. If your religion is of benefit to you than I see no reason why you should not keep it.
Portal,
If it worked for me why cant it work for others. I never read the Quran until last summer. And I still havent finished either. And to top it off I dont know arabic so I have to read the English translation. Yea, there is nothing wrong with reading any of the books. And about forcing people to their religion, Muslims cant do that either because it states in the Quran not to. All the other claims you have made are agreed with the Quran.
The most extraordinary thing I have found out is the Quran is a way of living. It is so detailed in many aspects of life. It gives answers to the problems we face. But you wont know this unless you read it for yourself with an open mind.
It is good to read other Holy Books, also to understand other religions. Unfortunately, these Holy Books can sometimes be misinterpreted. Luckily enough, I have met more people who have done something good with reading a Holy Book than people who have done bad with it. But QKid: good luck with reading the Quran.
QKid wrote:The most extraordinary thing I have found out is the Quran is a way of living. It is so detailed in many aspects of life. It gives answers to the problems we face. But you wont know this unless you read it for yourself with an open mind.
What does it say about doubting the Quran? What does it say about apostating and leaving the religion? Do you see anything in there about martyrdom that would explain the
suicide attacks against the shias in Iraq and Pakistan today?
QKid wrote: And about forcing people to their religion, Muslims cant do that either because it states in the Quran not to.
If that is true, then what does this verse mean?
Quote:"When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." Sura 9:5
Mesquite,
Suicide is HARAM(condemned) in Islam. Here is the verse:
4:29-30 "And do not kill yourselves. Surely, Allaah is Most Merciful to you. And whoever commits that through aggression and injustice, We shall cast him into the Fire, and that is easy for Allaah"
Those who do it, well you can read the verse. So killing yourself in order to cause harm to others is not allowed in Islam. I thank you for asking this question. It is a big misconception.
Now to the verse you gave me. When reading the Quran, we must remember that if we read without knowing the context, then we will totally misconstrude everything. The Quran was revealed in a way that a chain of verses will cover a certain topic. If one starts to read a verse from the middle of a topic, then you will end up with confusion. This is the case here.
Now if you read from the 1st verse of that Sura, it can be all explained:
1- A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances.
2- Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.
3- And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
4- (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.
5- But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
The Pagans and enemies of Islam frequently made treaties of mutual alliance with the Muslims. The Muslims scrupulously observed their part, but the Pagans violated their part again and again when it suited them. After some years, it became imperative to denounce such treaties altogether because it was unfair to the Muslims. This was done in due form, with four months' notice(verse 3), and a chance was given to those who faithfully observed their pledges, to continue their alliance.The emphasis is on the first clause; it is only when the four months of grace are past, and the other party(Pagans) still show no signs of desisting from their treacherous designs by right conduct, that the state of war supervenes-between Faith and Unfaith. But even then there is room for repentance and amendment on the part of the guilty party, and if that takes place, our duty is forgiveness and the establishment of peace.
So you see if we dont read/know the context, the verses will be misconstruded. There is a reason for each and every single verse in the Quran by the way.
Good questions Mesquite. I didnt know about these until you asked. It made me look into it and I learned something new.
QKid, I can get all of the life guidance I need from two principles:
1. treat other people the same way I would like to be treated (up to the point of self-defense)
2. I can learn about the world through observation (and I don't need any one story book to tell me how it is - I have my own senses to guide me.)
----
I think that anything that can never be allowed to be seen as "bad" "incorrect" or "contradicted" (in whole or in part) is clearly intended for brainwashing.
Anything that is considered non-falsifiable (the ultimate truth) is probably false. Almost all totalitarian governments and corrupt religions and cults consider themselves to be the ultimate truths, and don't allow otherwise within their belief systems.
Qkid I asked you this
Quote:What does it say about doubting the Quran? What does it say about apostating and leaving the religion? Do you see anything in there about martyrdom that would explain the suicide attacks against the shias in Iraq and Pakistan today?
and you replied with this
QKid wrote:Mesquite,
Suicide is HARAM(condemned) in Islam. Here is the verse:
4:29-30 "And do not kill yourselves. Surely, Allaah is Most Merciful to you. And whoever commits that through aggression and injustice, We shall cast him into the Fire, and that is easy for Allaah"
Those who do it, well you can read the verse. So killing yourself in order to cause harm to others is not allowed in Islam. I thank you for asking this question. It is a big misconception.
I asked about martyrdom and you replied about suicide. It certainly is a big misconception, especially among muslims. How do you explain the endless supply of ???????? that are willing to wrap themselves in explosives and set it off in the midst of a crowd of innocents?
QKid wrote:Now to the verse you gave me. When reading the Quran, we must remember that if we read without knowing the context, then we will totally misconstrude everything. The Quran was revealed in a way that a chain of verses will cover a certain topic. If one starts to read a verse from the middle of a topic, then you will end up with confusion. This is the case here.
Now if you read from the 1st verse of that Sura, it can be all explained:
1- A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances.
2- Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.
3- And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.
4- (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.
5- But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
The Pagans and enemies of Islam frequently made treaties of mutual alliance with the Muslims. The Muslims scrupulously observed their part, but the Pagans violated their part again and again when it suited them. After some years, it became imperative to denounce such treaties altogether because it was unfair to the Muslims. This was done in due form, with four months' notice(verse 3), and a chance was given to those who faithfully observed their pledges, to continue their alliance.The emphasis is on the first clause; it is only when the four months of grace are past, and the other party(Pagans) still show no signs of desisting from their treacherous designs by right conduct, that the state of war supervenes-between Faith and Unfaith. But even then there is room for repentance and amendment on the part of the guilty party, and if that takes place, our duty is forgiveness and the establishment of peace.
So you see if we dont read/know the context, the verses will be misconstruded. There is a reason for each and every single verse in the Quran by the way.
Even in context it is venomous throughout.
QKid wrote:Good questions Mesquite. I didnt know about these until you asked. It made me look into it and I learned something new.
And therein lies the problem. A simple verse and you had to be provided an answer which took a whole paragraph to dance around. That is also why I have asked you on several occasions about
multiple interpretations. I have also asked you apostating and leaving the religion. If you do not already know and would like to find out check
here for more than you may want to know.
The big misconception: "Good spiritual education" = "highly industrialized" = "heaven on earth" = "something above human".
Even atheists must think that they are well spiritually educated to become so.
What can I say? I agree with QKid. Islam can not be caught under one, huge interpretation that is shared by all Muslims in this world. Beside different interpretations, other religions can also influence the way of thinking by a Muslim. In Indonesia for example, it is well known Hinduism and Buddhism have influenced Islam. That this can lead to misinterpretation is something very wrong, but can you blame that on Islam in general? What is Islam "in general"? Is there any religion where you can talk about one unity? In Christianity, there is a huge difference between Roman-Catholics and Jehova's Witnesses, between Calvinists and Russian-Orthodoxs. That Islam is also very diverse, seems to be forgotten here. While Wahhabism really neglects women's right, under the shia Alevites women were treated equal to men already in the 13th century, meaning the possibility for education and not having to wear a headscarf. I do know that Islamic fundamentalism is rising, but I don't think a Muslim in Istanbul likes to be compared to a suicidebomber in the Palestinian Territories.
nothing
The problem i see here is that nothing is assumed to not exist.
It does exist. It can even be weighed.
Nothing is the void which Gods face moved over.
nothing is the source from which the Creator created from.
Nothing is the tao.
nothing is the ein sof
It is the substance of physics.
it is eternally and infinitely created from, returned to, and recreated from.
it is the wisdom which existed with the word from the beginning.
it is female
it is dark
it is unaware
it is
nothing
it exists
If nothing existed it wouldn't be nothing. It sounds like you're referring to something akin to aether.
Hello SCoates, nice to meet you.
If one thinks of no thing as just not a thing it is easy to understand.
Nothing really does exist.
(I just finished reading the Dancing Wu Li Masters.)
Russians use the concept of double negatives inversely. Rather than saying "nothing is there" you would say "Nothing isn't there." Either way really works just as well, but really only straddle the concept. Just a side point, solar, I know it doesn't relate.
Care to expound a little on your meaning of "nothing exists?" Or how it can be weighed.
