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Wed 12 Feb, 2003 09:24 pm
"We do not claim to know all the ways of Providence yet we can trust in them, placing our confidence in the loving God behind all of life, and all of history. May he guide us now."
In the end, I advise myself and you to fear God covertly and openly and to be patient in the jihad. Victory will be achieved with patience. I also advise myself and you to say more prayers.
"Our prayer tonight is that God will see us through and keep us worthy," "Hope still lights our way, and the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness will not overcome it."
God Almighty says: "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil."
"There is power -- wonder-working power -- in the goodness and idealism and faith of the American people."
Verily, Allah guideth not a people unjust.
"The American people have deep and diverse religious beliefs, truly one of the great strengths of our country. And the faith of our citizens is seeing us through some demanding times. We're being challenged. We're meeting those challenges because of our faith."
God Almighty says: "Oh ye who believe! If ye will help the cause of Allah, He will help you and plant your feet firmly."
"After we were attacked on September the 11th, we carried our grief to the Lord Almighty in prayer."
Obey Him, be thankful to Him, and remember Him always, and die not except in a state of Islam with complete submission to Allah.
"The role of government is limited, because government cannot put hope in people's hearts, or a sense of purpose in people's lives. That happens when someone puts an arm around a neighbor and says, God loves you, I love you, and you can count on us both."
The jurisdiction of the socialists and those rulers has fallen a long time ago. Socialists are infidels wherever they are, whether they are in Baghdad or Aden.
"I ask you to challenge your listeners to encourage your congregations to work together for the good of this nation, to work hard to break down the barriers that have divided the children of God for too long. There is no question that we can rid this nation of hopelessness and despair, because the greatest of America is the character of the American people."
Before concluding, we reiterate the importance of high morale and caution against false rumors, defeatism, uncertainty, and discouragement.
"What I'm saying is, the days of discriminating against religious groups just because they're religious are coming to an end. I have issued an executive order banning discrimination against faith-based charities and social service grants by federal agencies."
Allah is sufficient for us and He is the best disposer of affairs.
"And we are a courageous country, ready when necessary to defend the peace. And today, the peace is threatened. We face a continuing threat of terrorist networks that hate the very thought of people being able to live in freedom."
We also stress to honest Muslims that they should move, incite, and mobilize the [Islamic] nation, amid such grave events and hot atmosphere so as to liberate themselves from those unjust and renegade ruling regimes, which are enslaved by the United States.
"They hate the thought of the fact that in this great country, we can worship the Almighty God the way we see fit. And what probably makes him even angrier is we're not going to change."
Muslims' doctrine and banner should be clear in fighting for the sake of God. He who fights to raise the word of God will fight for God's sake. So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.
"We face an outlaw regime in Iraq that hates our country."
Needless to say, this crusade war is primarily targeted against the people of Islam.
"A regime that aids and harbors terrorists and is armed with weapons of mass murder. Chemical agents, lethal viruses, and shadowy terrorist networks are not easily contained. Secretly, without fingerprints, Saddam Hussein could provide one of his hidden weapons to terrorists, or help them develop their own. Saddam Hussein is a threat. He's a threat to the United States of America. He's a threat to some of our closest friends and allies. We don't accept this threat."
We are following up with great interest and extreme concern the crusaders' preparations for war to occupy a former capital of Islam, loot Muslims' wealth, and install an agent government, which would be a satellite for its masters in Washington and Tel Aviv, just like all the other treasonous and agent Arab governments. This would be in preparation for establishing the Greater Israel.
"My attitude is that we owe it to future generations of Americans and citizens in freedom-loving countries to see to it that Mr. Saddam Hussein is disarmed."
This is a prescribed duty. God says: "[And let them pray with thee] taking all precautions and bearing arms: the unbelievers wish if ye were negligent of your arms and your baggage, to assault you in a single rush."
"It's his choice to make as to how he will be disarmed. He can either do so -- which it doesn't look like he's going to -- for the sake of peace, we will lead a coalition of willing countries and disarm Saddam Hussein."
Regardless of the removal or the survival of the socialist party or Saddam, Muslims in general and the Iraqis in particular must brace themselves for jihad against this unjust campaign and acquire ammunition and weapons.
"But should we need to use troops, for the sake of future generations of Americans, American troops will act in the honorable traditions of our military and in the highest moral traditions of our country."
Amid this unjust war, the war of infidels and debauchees led by America along with its allies and agents, we would like to stress a number of important values...
"In violation of the Geneva Conventions, Saddam Hussein is positioning his military forces within civilian populations in order to shield his military and blame coalition forces for civilian casualties that he has caused. Saddam Hussein regards the Iraqi people as human shields, entirely expendable when their suffering serves his purposes."
"...we realized from our defense and fighting against the American enemy that, in combat, they mainly depend on psychological warfare. This is in light of the huge media machine they have. They also depend on massive air strikes so as to conceal their most prominent point of weakness, which is the fear, cowardliness, and the absence of combat spirit among US soldiers.
"America views the Iraqi people as human beings who have suffered long enough under this tyrant. And the Iraqi people can be certain of this: the United States is committed to helping them build a better future. If conflict occurs, we'll bring Iraq food and medicine and supplies and, most importantly, freedom."
In the name of God, the merciful, the compassionate. A message to our Muslim brothers in Iraq, may God's peace, mercy, and blessings be upon you.
"We're called to defend our nation and to lead the world to peace, and we will meet both challenges with courage and with confidence."
If all the world forces of evil could not achieve their goals on a one square mile of area against a small number of mujahideen with very limited capabilities, how can these evil forces triumph over the Muslim world?
"Liberty is not America's gift to the world. Liberty is God's gift to every human being in the world."
God, who sent the book unto the prophet, who drives the clouds, and who defeated the enemy parties, defeat them and make us victorious over them.
"There's an old saying, 'Let us not pray for tasks equal to our strength. Let us pray for strength equal to our tasks.' And that is our prayer today, for the strength in every task we face."
...we remind that victory comes only from God and all we have to do is prepare and motivate for jihad.
"I want to thank each of you for your prayers. I want to thank you for your faithfulness. I want to thank you for your good work. And I want to thank you for loving your country. May God bless you all, and may God bless America."
O ye who believe. When ye meet a force, be firm, and call Allah in remembrance much (and often); That ye may prosper. Our Lord. Give us good in this world and good in the Hereafter and save us from the torment of the Fire. May God's peace and blessings be upon Prophet Muhammad and his household.
(this, from digby's blog:)
Does anyone but me find it unbelievable that Reverend Dubya is ratcheting up the holy roller Christian fundamentalist rhetoric just prior to invading a Muslim country loaded with sacred biblical sites? I realize that we would be nothing but a bunch of useless Old Europeans if we "appeased" the terrorists in any way at this point, but this seems to me to be just a tad over the top stooopid, even for the Preacher in Chief.
Apparently we are determined that al Jazeera and the rest of the Mideast media have hours of footage of our President speaking in religious terms that even a battle-hardened Arab realist would find provocative. Lucky for us, CNN provides daily coverage of every single canned repetitive public utterance of our Great Leader, so there are endless choices of which call to prayer or faith or God those terrorist recruiters want to use in their videos.
Let's see: against the backdrop of seething resentment against the West, al Qaeda declares Holy Jihad against the US and blows up the World Trade Center, in the name of Allah. The US government decides this is the perfect time to invade a Mideast country with whom they have an unrelated bone to pick and even though its purported ties to the perpetrators are laughable, it surely looks to disaffected, resentful Muslims that we just want to kill us some Arabs and we don't care who they are. And just to make things perfectly clear, they decide that it's a very smart idea for the President to conflate terrorism and Iraq into a metaphor for Satan using explicitly Christian crusading terms to do it.
I'm quite sure that every one of those billion Muslims around the world understands that President Bush is only talking about God and Jesus all the time because Karl Rove says he has to pacify his base before he can move to the center to capture the swing voters in Pennsylvania and Michigan. There's no reason to think that anyone could misinterpret his hyper-religiosity as an answer to bin Laden's explicit call for Holy War.
It's almost primary season, fer-Gawds-sakes. Everybody knows that. Even evil heathens.
whatever..anyway Allah literally means God in arabic language. even an arab christian prays to 'Allah'.
PD - A very sticky topic. From the beginning (with Bush) we've known that the hard core base support group has been the far Christian right. They've never forgotten where their God comes from. And this is not new. A lot of people like to claim there are three major religions in the world - all claiming descent from a common patriarch and beginning. This belief, which should have held them togehter, has instead led to some of the bloodiest wars in history.
And the thing is, there are older, possibly better religions. Shinto, which has been the major Japanese religion since somewhere around the 500's BCE, and whose name was derived from an old Chinese word, is still practised and believed in. As is Buddhism, which dates from somewhere around the same period. And among all religions there are remnants of very ancient, pagan beiefs.
Watch the progress of Franklin Graham, as he glides along the preacher's road. And don't forget the public proclamation by Bush that Jesus got him off the booze. What is pitiful is that something as real as a belief is just another number to be manipulated by Rove. In the end, when history is written, this will be shown as being just another advertising ploy, to hide the very real deficiencies. If you are trying to sell a car that doesn't run, you point out the chrome and the color, and sell the belief in the package, rather than in the truth of it.
Allah is very real to millions of people, and I don't see why Moslems would not be any more incensed than would Christians at this kind of stuff. The Jews, having suffered through all of this and more for these thousands of years, know what's happening. And nothing good ever comes of it in the end. Unless there is true belief.
HorriBelle wrote:whatever..anyway Allah literally means God in arabic language. even an arab christian prays to 'Allah'.
That is just not true .
Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship as far back as 2000 BC.
In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah.
This Hubal was a moon god.
One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god Hubal was placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. This may in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque throughout the world:
About four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad one Amr bin Lahyo ... a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had put an idol called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief deities of the Quraish before Islam. (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz Ghulam Sarwar (Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim)
The moon god was also referred to as "al-ilah". This is not a proper name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning "the god". Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local tribal pagan god as "al-ilah".
"al-ilah" was later shortened to Allah before Muhammad began promoting his new religion in 610 AD.
There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as "Allah".
When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to the name "Hubal" but retained the generic "Allah".
Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of the Arabs at the Kaba and redefined them in monotheistic terms.
Regardless of the specifics of the facts, it is clear that Islam is derived from paganism that once worshiped a moon-god.
Although Islam is today a monotheist religion, its roots are in paganism.
any refferance in arabic bibles To God as allah was a a translation issue untill modern times now in muslim contries what would you expect them to write
PD, you are the one at this moment in time who is seeing divisiveness in religions, kicking up controversy. We are in a war with the Taliban and followers of Saddam Hussein, who would also like to think that religion is somehow involved but is not. I have read that Islam's "Jihad" is in reference to a battle within one's own self bettween good and evil thoughts. As is the "battle of Armageddon which some "Christians" think is also some future physical battle (war between peoples).
When all religions are studied a thread of truth can be found that travels through them all.
Tex-Star wrote:PD, you are the one at this moment in time who is seeing divisiveness in religions, kicking up controversy. We are in a war with the Taliban and followers of Saddam Hussein, who would also like to think that religion is somehow involved but is not. I have read that Islam's "Jihad" is in reference to a battle within one's own self bettween good and evil thoughts. As is the "battle of Armageddon which some "Christians" think is also some future physical battle (war between peoples).
When all religions are studied a thread of truth can be found that travels through them all.
your "knowledge" of Jihad is propaganda the history of the "greater jihad is vwery weak Basicly unmentioned in the koran
But the quran is very clear on what jihad is
there is no battle of armageddon it is a place where they gather but no battle takes place rev 19.17
Noble Qur'an 2:190 Footnote: "Jihad is holy fighting in Allah's Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah's Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite."
http://fruitofislam. com
http://prophetofdoom. net
Tex-Star wrote:When all religions are studied a thread of truth can be found that travels through them all.
How very correct!
The thread of truth that runs through all of them is that all appear to be nothing more than superstitious guesswork gone apeshit.
Hello
PD:
I must ask what is your point or purpose to bring this topic. It does have many controversies.
Mamajuana:
It is not Moslems. It is pronounced Muslim. It comes from the word Islam. In English we put the suffix "er" to verbs. Like, walker, talker, traveler. In Arabic we put the PREFIX "mu" in front of verbs. Like, to travel in Arabic is suffr and traveler is MUsuffr. "Islam" can be taken as a verb. So a person who is an "islamer" in Arabic is a "MUslim".
Mindbomb:
The Moon God thing is a bunch of bull bro. Allah the Moon god is not the same Allah that Muslims worship. It is so wrong bro. And the term Jihad has about 5 definitions. Tex-Star's definition comes very close to the real meaning of Jihad. That its one's struggle with himself on what is correct according to Islam and what is wrong.
Tex-Star:
You are so right about how this should not be a war against Muslims. Instead religion should not be brought in when talking about terrorism.
QKid,
Mamajuana has passed away.
Re: Hello
QKid wrote:Tex-Star:
You are so right about how this should not be a war against Muslims. Instead religion should not be brought in when talking about terrorism.
I'd revise that thought to read:
"You are so right about how this should not be a war against Muslims. It should be a war against all religions. Religion is terrorism."
Thanx Frank but I would leave it as it is. All I am saying is that if a man commits a crime or an act or terrorism, his religion should not be blamed or brought into it.
I dont know why u think religion is terrorism. That is a pretty harsh thing to say.
QKid wrote:Thanx Frank but I would leave it as it is. All I am saying is that if a man commits a crime or an act or terrorism, his religion should not be blamed or brought into it.
I dont know why u think religion is terrorism. That is a pretty harsh thing to say.
My guess is that a VAST majority of religious people are religious BECAUSE they are terrified. And mostly what they are terrified of is...
...their gods.
That is why people threw virgins into volcanoes -- and that pretty much is why you hear people protesting so loudly about how they love the gods currently popular.
And as a bonus, almost all the religions have at one time or another been terrorists against other religions.
Gotta please their gods!
Well I dont think that people should be terrified of God. I believe in God and I am definetly scared of Him because He created everything and can take it away in a micro second. God is not out to get us. He is testing us to see if we choose His path(rules and laws). If we dont and we do something which He condemns, then we have something to be terrified about.
As for about the throwing virgins into volcanoes, I have no idea how to respond to that because I never heard of that. It is not allowed in Islam. And the killing of innocent people is forbidden in Islam, even during a war. (So if it were Muslims who did the crime on 9/11, many innocent lives were lost. This is condemned in Islam, what do you about it now?)
And about your last statement of "almost all the religions have at one time or another been terrorists against other religions", Islam does not believe in this at all. Actually the Qur'an says there is no compulsion in religion so putting the sword to someone if they dont come to Islam is highly condemned. It also teaches that it is up the individual if he/she wants to follow whatever religion he/she wants. So basically, no one is being forced into Islam and a person can practice what ever he/she wants to.
QKid wrote:Well I dont think that people should be terrified of God. I believe in God and I am definetly scared of Him because He created everything and can take it away in a micro second. God is not out to get us. He is testing us to see if we choose His path(rules and laws). If we dont and we do something which He condemns, then we have something to be terrified about.
As for about the throwing virgins into volcanoes, I have no idea how to respond to that because I never heard of that. It is not allowed in Islam. And the killing of innocent people is forbidden in Islam, even during a war. (So if it were Muslims who did the crime on 9/11, many innocent lives were lost. This is condemned in Islam, what do you about it now?)
And about your last statement of "almost all the religions have at one time or another been terrorists against other religions", Islam does not believe in this at all. Actually the Qur'an says there is no compulsion in religion so putting the sword to someone if they dont come to Islam is highly condemned. It also teaches that it is up the individual if he/she wants to follow whatever religion he/she wants. So basically, no one is being forced into Islam and a person can practice what ever he/she wants to.
Interesting post, Q. A good one!
I figure the best way to respond to it is to make a simple request of you.
I'd ask you to look up the word "naive" in the dictionary!
I dont understand Frank. Are you calling me naive?
Why would you call me naive? Can you explain. Did I say anything to offend you?
QKid wrote:Why would you call me naive? Can you explain. Did I say anything to offend you?
Not even slightly.
My naive comment had to do with your view of what religions are and are not.
Quote:Well I dont think that people should be terrified of God. I believe in God and I am definetly scared of Him because He created everything and can take it away in a micro second. God is not out to get us. He is testing us to see if we choose His path(rules and laws). If we dont and we do something which He condemns, then we have something to be terrified about.
C'mon, Q. You acknowledge that you "believe" your god can "condemn" you -- and you say you are not terrified of it.
In other words, this god of yours has the power to place you in Hell and torture you for all the rest of eternity if you displease it in some way -- and you are not terrified of that!!!???
Quote:And the killing of innocent people is forbidden in Islam, even during a war. (So if it were Muslims who did the crime on 9/11, many innocent lives were lost. This is condemned in Islam, what do you about it now?)
Who decides who is "innocent" and who is not?
Quote:And about your last statement of "almost all the religions have at one time or another been terrorists against other religions", Islam does not believe in this at all.
Islam is a religion. It does not "believe" in anything. The people who are components of the religion do the "believing" -- and let me tell you that many, many, many, MANY Islamics think that they not only CAN terrorize the people of other religions, they think they are REQUIRED to do so.
Quote: Actually the Qur'an says there is no compulsion in religion so putting the sword to someone if they dont come to Islam is highly condemned. It also teaches that it is up the individual if he/she wants to follow whatever religion he/she wants. So basically, no one is being forced into Islam and a person can practice what ever he/she wants to.
Q, you are naive. You seem like a very decent person -- but naive. If only all the adherents of Islam -- and all the other religions on the planet -- felt as you do, the Earth would be a much nicer place.
But it ain't that way!
Frank:
Well first you said that I said that God can condemn me. Well look back I did not say that. I said if we do something which He condemns (which He said not to do) then we have something to be terrified about.
Secondly, you said "this god of yours has the power to place you in Hell and torture you for all the rest of eternity if you displease it in some way -- and you are not terrified of that!!!???". Have you ever heard of repenting?
Third, you said "Who decides who is "innocent" and who is not?". If you are in a war against some tribe, you cannot attack a farmer or woman or child or anyone who is not fighting you. hats what I mean by an innocent person. You cannot tell me that the many which died on 9/11 were not innocent. Its not that hard to differentiate who is innocent or not.
Fourth, you said "and let me tell you that many, many, many, MANY Islamics think that they not only CAN terrorize the people of other religions, they think they are REQUIRED to do so.". Nice statement but it does not mean much. I dont speak on behalf of those people, but if they are Muslims, then they are wrong. Islam does not teach such things.
Fifth, you said "Q, you are naive. You seem like a very decent person -- but naive. If only all the adherents of Islam -- and all the other religions on the planet -- felt as you do, the Earth would be a much nicer place. But it ain't that way!". I do realize that many Muslims dont believe in some of the things I am saying. You see, it depends on their situation. If they feel as if their land has been taken over and they have to fight back for it, then ofcourse their mentally will be different. It will always be in a "war-like" state. Thanx I guess for saying the world would be a better place if they felt as I did, but I do not represent all Muslims and a bunch of people do not represent all Muslims and a whole country does not even represent all Muslims. You catch my drift?
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