Democracy is best served by strict separation of...

A quote from a famous book that is never out of reach in spendiland:-

"......there is no boundary line between religion and the profane--all waking consciousness IS religion."

I agree it is badly worded.What the man ought to have said is-"....there is no such thing as the profane (the secular)--all waking consciousness is religion."
The justification is both lengthy and difficult.

hmmmmmm.....I kinda used that in my case, saying that everything was a religion, even the belief in no belief. I said that everyone has their own religion, just as they have their own DNA or thought process.

hyper,

your argument may be effective in debate competition where points are scored on persuasiveness. however, in a legal sense, there is a strict demarcation between what is secular and what is religious.

I think your statement treats philosphy and religion a the same thing. You might want to differentiate those terms more accurately and then see if your statement still makes sense.

i was using a VERY loose definition of religion. Actually, I was using a very loose definition of both church and the religion it was connected with. I basically said that church in the topic was not referring to an institution, but, basically, an individual's philosophy. It only worked because I suffer from the mentality that I am always right, and argue almost to the point of arrogancy, but all I am doing is having fun! I know it doesn't work like that in the real world.

Good girl! (We were all worried about you.)

hey, I am not THAT blond!

Hey wandle, did you notice that I called you Walter earlier? sorry for the typo!

Any new news from Iraq? I don't get out much.

IRAQ UPDATE

Earlier this week, the new democratic national assembly in Iraq got together for the first time and were all sworn in. Out of 275 members, 85 are women. (I believe this may have at least a moderating effect on the influence of Islamic law.)

The mostly secular Kurds and the religious Shiites have already had disagreements but are said to be making progress in reaching a compromise.

Incidentally, international women's groups are sponsoring seminars in democratic constitution writing for the new Iraqi female legislators.

maybe the men could benefit from these groups, also?

Hyper;_

It's a waste.You're on intuition.
The causal analyticals need the separation to have something to argue about.
The moon is separate from the sun.Right?
But in the sense that both are components of the "other" as opposed to the "self" they are not separate.
The separation of elements of the other into categories with labels is useful in the same way that a knife and fork are useful and is taken to very attenuated forms in places like the British Museum and law books.But it is materialistic.When these guys are asleep or in an alcoholic stupor they are just like you-all self.
You must be in a permanent dream state like me.It isn't something to worry about and it's easier to cope with when you understand it.I think it is a healthy state because it is in tune with body evolution.This other stuff is only last 7000 years which is nothing to evolution.Religion is a process which mediates between the "self" and the mysterious and sometimes frightening "other".
Watch cats.

always wanted to see cats, and i am accused of being in a dream state all the time. I am afraid I am not a big fan of reality. I just wish that all iraqi legislatives could, I don't know, be in a college type situation, because this is new to them, and, maybe being more exposed to different views would help.

spendius: you are one with the universe, all things to all people, you are ageless, timeless, you are in touch with your inner child and in touch with both your feminine and masculine selves.

hyper: Your suggestion is very practical and hopefully all 275 members of the new Iraqi national assembly are receiving help from other democracies in writing the new constitution. It is also instructive for us to observe the construction of a democratic constitution as it is happening.

but once again, I know that this will probably not happen in the real world. and it kinda makes me sad.

oh, and spendius, you are quite immortal in your thoughts :wink:

wande:-

Me? A feminine side?Don't be so ridiculous.

IRAQ CONSTITUTION UPDATE

It has been reported that Shiite Islamists in the new national assembly are downplaying the role of Islam in the new constitution. They do not want to use Iran's constitution as a model. The clerical leader of the Iraqi Shiites opposes the idea of clerical rule introduced in Iran by Ayatollah Khomeini. The Shiite members in the national assembly are promising to respect equality for women and other universal values.

wand, That is indeed very good news. Now to write that Constitution with those "Universal VAlues."

Interesting. One way to get a constitution passed amidst a bunch of people with very different religions views is to remove religion from the constitution. Religions may not be happy with a secular government, but they might prefer secular to any other type of compromise.

Good point, rosborne. Whatever constitution they come up with will be submitted to a direct vote by all Iraqis in October. If they fail to get a majority of Iraqis to approve their constitution, this particular national assembly will be dissolved and new elections would be held in December.

I wonder what percentage of the Iraqi population will be able to get access to, read, and understand, the new constitution once presented. Do the Iraqi votes use a representative type of system like we do with the electoral college, or is it just done with raw votes?

rosborne,

From my reading, it appears the October vote will be a referendum type of thing. It has been reported in the media that Iraqis will be allowed a direct yes or no vote on the constitution. I don't think the October popular vote will be filtered by any electoral college type of thing.

By August or September, a majority in the national assembly must approve the constitution that is to be submitted to a direct popular vote. The actual drafting of the constitution must be completed by August.