What are your eclipse plans?

@oralloy,

Quote:

Texas. Or if you want to risk the drug lords, Mexico is better yet.

I like Maine much better. We can hndle everything xcept high ceiling rainstorms which are only an occasional guest in Maine in the Spring. Even Snowstorms along the"Ridgeback " have two sides like the Himalayas (We used to ski the back side of Mt Washington(Tuckermans Ravine) and, from up top we had a spectacular view UP , but thick fog on the way down. Ive been up on Katahdin many times and the only thing I really fear is the really teeny parking lot. I hope Maine sets up a temporary facility and bus jitneys to the spine. I workd in those areas of Mexico and There is no respite from the heat.

I recall you being a Dimetrodon fan(maybe it was someone else , this ol mind is getting hazy in my dotage)

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@maporsche,

yeh, I just like the cirques. Im not gonna climb any more . I helped a field geology course do a semestre project in doing a geomorph map of Katahdin. I was stiff for a month.

Snow is a go, rain's the pain. But I hope we can stay above it

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

I like Maine much better. We can hndle everything xcept high ceiling rainstorms which are only an occasional guest in Maine in the Spring.

So you're saying this mountaintop will be above most cloud cover? For this recent eclipse mountaintops were usually considered an area of increased cloud cover.

How hard is it to reach the mountaintop? I presume I won't have to scale any cliffs, but is it a matter of a long hike? A short hike? Something we can drive up to the top?

farmerman wrote:

I recall you being a Dimetrodon fan(maybe it was someone else , this ol mind is getting hazy in my dotage)

It is probably me that you remember. I'm not a fan exactly, but I recognize pelycosaurs and therapsids as ancestral to the mammals. And as such, mammalian ancestors dominated the planet long before the dinosaurs came to any sort of prominence. When people lump Dimetrodons in as a type of dinosaur, that is likely to set me off on a long-winded rant.

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@farmerman,

2024 is going to be perfect

I'll have to go less than 20 miles to be at 100%. Less if I've already made it back to my hometown. My best friend has 100+ acres just north of town, it'll be perfect. Dogs, cows, humans.

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@ehBeth,

Think about cloud cover too. Being close isn't going to do you any good if you are looking at the bottom of thick clouds.

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@oralloy,

Weather report that day is looking kind of grim that day, isn't.

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@roger,

roger wrote:

Weather report that day is looking kind of grim that day, isn't.

All of New England looks grim in April Wink

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@oralloy,

we don't see much in the way of clouds that time of year

March , yes.
April, not so much.

there is always the option in going up in a plane which we've got access to in my hometown, but I suspect we wouldn't need to do that

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@oralloy,

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.XmS7Ue57mIYifpIvR34WegEsDj&w=240&h=182&c=7&qlt=90&o=4&dpr=1.45&pid=1.7

you judge. weve been on ridgeline and seen the clouds spill over from wind to lee after being pushed up as an adiabatic 'lift'.

OH, I thought you were a fan of the sailed lizards of the P.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

OH, I thought you were a fan of the sailed lizards of the P.

Protomammals are NOT lizards.

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@oralloy,

please. dont lecture me .
Dimetrodon are NOT proto mammals. they were order pelycosauria NOT order therapsida. All(subclass) Synapsida were increasingly "mammal-like" ( in that They started to increasingly bear things that mammals would later be defined by). The Therapsids contained 3 suborders that were true proto mammals. Pelycosaurs (IT MEANS FINNED lizard were not) Besides they were early P not late. Eothyris an earlier pelycosaur was probably the last common ancestor of pelycosaurs and therapsids. ie "Lizards separated from proto mammals in early P time.
The only good Dimetrodon serves us is that the critter was so common we use it for a time marker (terminal Pennsylvania(Gzelian age) to early Permian (Asselian age)

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Besides they were early P not late. Eothyris an earlier pelycosaur was probably the last common ancestor of pelycosaurs and therapsids. ie "Lizards separated from proto mammals in early P time.

Last I read up on the subject, therapsids were believed to be descended from pelycosaurs. After most of the pelycosaurs died out, a few surviving pelycosaurs then evolved into the empty niches and became therapsids.

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@oralloy,

pelycosaurs are a separate order from Therapsids . They were not on the road to mammals. There are three suborders of Therapsids that were. Pelycosaurs were an early form of mostly sail back "lizard-like reptiles"(lizard-like is my term,SAURUS mean lizard though) They were still occasional belly draggers. Their humerii were angled more as in suspension rather than erection.

The point has been that you missed one of the best early PErmian fossil beds of dimetrodon next to Nova SCotia at Cape Blomedin

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

pelycosaurs are a separate order from Therapsids . They were not on the road to mammals.

As far as I can tell the consensus is still that they were ancestral to the therapsids, and therefore ancestral to mammals.

farmerman wrote:

There are three suborders of Therapsids that were.

The fact that therapsids were ancestral to mammals doesn't mean that pelycosaurs were not. I'm a descendant of both my father and my grandfather.

farmerman wrote:

Pelycosaurs were an early form of mostly sail back "lizard-like reptiles"(lizard-like is my term,SAURUS mean lizard though)

Pelycosaurs weren't reptiles. They belong to the mammal linage. Synapsids, not diapsids.

farmerman wrote:

They were still occasional belly draggers. Their humerii were angled more as in suspension rather than erection.

I agree that they were primitive. All land animals were back then. It wasn't too long before that that all land animals were amphibians. But they were primitive ancestors to the mammals, no relation to any reptiles.

farmerman wrote:

The point has been that you missed one of the best early PErmian fossil beds of dimetrodon next to Nova SCotia at Cape Blomedin

Is it open to the public? If so I'll try to visit it if I ever get back out that way.

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@oralloy,

not too much consensus because we use speciric pelycosaurs for time stratigraphic determination. They existed in many many places ontemporneusly with therapsids like procynosuchus or Robertia (which were overlapping therapsid cynodonts and dicynodonts.
As Raup said
"Contemporeneity precludes common ancestry"

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Wow. Had to scroll down to see if this was "...eclipse plans?"

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@oralloy,

Quote:

Pelycosaurs weren't reptiles

Thats Bob Bakker talk. The contemporeneity with the therapsids makes it more reptile,(like archeopteryx was a reptile)>Also, Bakker "believed " they were endothermic so far nothing compelling about that point.
Now you can see how discussions at conferences run. Dimetrodontians love to call em proto mammals and most paleostratigraphers say BS!!
Bandwagonning is a hobby of many western museums.

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@Ponderer,

Ponderer wrote:

Wow. Had to scroll down to see if this was "...eclipse plans?"

Like I said: "When people lump Dimetrodons in as a type of dinosaur, that is likely to set me off on a long-winded rant."

"Lizard" is just as offensive a label to apply to a proud mammal as "dinosaur". No diapsid blood runs through my veins.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

not too much consensus because we use speciric pelycosaurs for time stratigraphic determination. They existed in many many places ontemporneusly with therapsids like procynosuchus or Robertia (which were overlapping therapsid cynodonts and dicynodonts.

My understanding is that pelycosaurs died out at the end of the Cisuralian and were replaced by the dinocephalians, which died out at the end of the Guadalupian and were replaced by gorgonopsids, therocephalians, and cynodonts.

farmerman wrote:

As Raup said
"Contemporeneity precludes common ancestry"

I think he's wrong. It is possible for a group of animals to become separated from the main population and evolve into a new species while the main population continues as the original species.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Thats Bob Bakker talk. The contemporeneity with the therapsids makes it more reptile,(like archeopteryx was a reptile)

Pelycosaurs are synapsids. Reptiles are diapsids. That completely precludes any possibility of pelycosaurs being reptiles.

farmerman wrote:

Also, Bakker "believed " they were endothermic so far nothing compelling about that point.

Nor anything compelling against it. Seems to me that the proper attitude is to just say we don't currently know either way.

farmerman wrote:

Now you can see how discussions at conferences run. Dimetrodontians love to call em proto mammals and most paleostratigraphers say BS!!

How do the naysayers get around the reality that pelycosaurs are synapsids?

farmerman wrote:

Bandwagonning is a hobby of many western museums.

The arguments sound fun.

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