Christmas (and Easter, and Thanksgiving, and Channukah, and birthdays, and weddings, and going to the store and getting a carton of milk, and etc etc etc) is already taxed and given to government welfare programs and public education. I really don't see the difference.
Can't we just cancel Christmas. Just for one year? I'm no bah humbug, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit.
jpinMilwaukee wrote:There have been programs to help the poor for years... where has it gotten us?
Another story, aside from thethinkfactory's, that is worth recounting here is one PDiddie posted
here earlier. It, too, kind of puts into focus where those programs get people - and where we stand without them.
Quote:
I work at a domestic violence shelter in a rural conservative district in Mich. [..]
Yesterday while reflecting about 4 more years of Bush I was talking with a woman staying in the shelter. I will give her a fake name, lets call her Laura B. Laura is 28, pregnant, (never considered an abortion). She finished high school and did a year of college before dropping out to have a couple of kids with her military husband. Living in Virginia on base with her autocratic mate (he doesn't allow the boys 3 and 4 to say "yeap" they have to answer "yes sir") drove her crazy and she was hospitalized for suicidal thoughts. Military dude divorced her and has custody.
She came home to Mom in Mich and ended up at our shelter to try and sort out her life. (Mom has no money either and her own problems.) We, like all secular agencies, have seen a steady erosion of funds.
Laura B. has found a job working in the kitchen at a local faith based Christian College. She makes $6/hour. She drives a dying Ford Escort wagon and pays $2.15/gallon for gas. Her latest crisis is her insurance expired on Oct. 9 (her ex-partner cancelled policy). She needs to come up with $211 to get insurance for one month or face a $1,000 fine if she gets caught driving with no insurance. We have some public transportation, Dial-a Ride, minibus runs between 7 am and 6 p.m., M-F $1.50 one-way. She has to be at work at 6am.
She has been walking to work lately but it is about 2 miles. She is 5 months pregnant, it is dark at 5 am, and winter is coming. Solution? Go begging at the churches who seem to have money for these things. They will give her the money if she attends bible school. So last night she was at bible school until 9 p.m.
She has never attended our domestic violence support groups as she is too tired at night and goes to bed early, but the bible study was not optional.
She was excited about "God's message" when she came back.
This week she moves into low income subsidized housing. Her newest crisis is she has found out when the college is closed for the Christmas holiday (one month) she has no employment. She is hoping to find temporary employment as a seasonal retail worker if the Christmas sales are brisk to tide her over. She doesn't know what she will do when the baby is born, hopes she can work up till the last week (she is on her feet all day with this job). She will be eligible for subsidized daycare.
She voted for Bush because of his "family values."
The thought makes me cringe! Where I live, sales tax is already 15% and that anymore taxes would put me in the poor house. After taxes, smokes are $9.50 a pack and I had to quit those, so I'd have to give up Christmas as well if we did what you propose!
How much do you spend on Christmas gifts, if I may ask? I mean, you people, in general? From what I understand from A. (who is from no rich family), Americans spend exorbitant sums of money at Christmas ...
I dont really understand. Here we have, at 5 Dec, the Sinterklaas holiday, which traditionally means that everyone in the family or group buys a present for one of the others, doesnt need to be anything big (a five, ten or fifteen dollar gift is perfectly acceptable), but writes a poem to go with it and/or builds a kind of creative package out of/around the present. Now that families are getting so much smaller, say theres just four of you, it happens more often that everyone buys a gift for each of the others, but again, very modest price, its all about the effort, the creativity. Its celebrated by all families with children and by groups of friends or students or stuff.
Then there's Christmas, which we didnt use to celebrate much in Holland (apart from the religious service and the tree, and a special dinner), but at which now many families have started exchanging gifts, though many others choose between either one or the other. And again the gifts can be quite modest, same price range really. So when I hear about Americans spending literally hundreds of $$ on Xmas gifts alone, I'm just kinda totally baffled.
Christmas is NOT, nor ever has been exorbitant in my world. I simply could never afford it.. These days I buy a small something for my three nieces and one nephew, as I feel Christmas is really all about the kids anyway as far as gifts are concerned.. I always buy something for each of my kids (now grown), but it is usually something as simple as a book or a momento more meaningful
Trust me, retailers don't get rich off of me.
Most of my spending goes towards my son and I get something for my mother as well. I do give a few of my friends gifts, but it's always something that I made with very little cost. I'd say I spend around $300 total on Christmas gifts.
I am right about there Montana - some times I feel that I wish I could afford more - but then I remember when I was a kid and I wanted to play with the boxes that my gifts came in - and I know my son Lambert won't miss anything.
I talk to a lot of kids at my college whose fathers work 70-100 hours a week and I ask them 'What would you rather have - more **** or your father home - they have answered - to a man - thier father home.'
TF
p.s Thanks for the Kudos on the story above - but they have more to do with my mother than I. She worked her ass off so that I could have a little something to spring board from.
Also, I be Pdiddy knows my mother. She was the director at a Shelter in Michigan. I think I know what conservative area he is talking about.
TF
Lady J wrote:Can't we just cancel Christmas. Just for one year? I'm no bah humbug, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit.
Did you see christmas with the Kranks?
As for the question, we spend more than we can afford simply because we feel forced to on my husband's side because they do. On my side of the family we made a pact to spend less.
This year we have no choice but to cut down on the spending. But whatever we spend, it will really be more than we can afford. We don't want to disapoint anyone.
in agreement with ttf;
the 'poor' do not need anything 'given' to them; they simply need something taken away!
[they need to have their 'poverty' taken away to give them a chance to catch their breath, and begin the hard climb out, without the dead weight of despair cast on their feet.]
and on the cynical side; christmas probably creates more 'self induced' (societally induced!) need, than it aleviates.
Holy cow - it is th Season for Miracles. BoGoWo and I agreed on something! Weeeee!
TF
What if we dedicate a portion of the sales taxes Xmas shoppers would pay anyway, and, in the alleged Xmas spirit, give it to charity?
I think I would rather tax the charities, JL.
Letty!
For you that is downright hostile! Still, venting is good.
Noddy, When I discovered the percentage of overhead that the Red Cross makes, and discovered that they have an actual collection agency, I felt a bit cheated. It took me forever to trace down a bill that I received for my husband's having ONE shot during our stay at the shelter. After multiple calls trying to ascertain who was charging me, I found that it was The Red Cross. Can you believe that?
Letty--
You're entitled to vent. I'd be angry, too.
I'll get over it, Noddy. Believe me it's not anger, it's insecurity. Now this is what love should be about:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050111/ap_on_re_as/tsunami_temple_sold
