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Thu 2 Dec, 2004 03:30 pm
hey everyone, i'm new here and have a few questions about buying art from auction house ebay. there must be quite a few of you out there who have seen the stuff sold or even bought yourself.
i've bought a few pieces by chagall, picasso, and dali. and the million dollar question is if its fake or not. i only bought from power sellers and everything i bought was hand signed. the top price i paid was 700 for a drawing and the cheapest 350 for a framed chagall litho hand signed.
i see these purchases as nothing more than speculation, i knew what i was getting involved in buying undocumented art from people i dont know. that being said, ebay seems a high risk/high reward place to accquire valuable art at rock bottom prices.
my questions are if down the track i wanted to sell the art at an auction house. what do you think there attitude would be towards someone arriving with un documented art? eg, i show up with a nicely framed picasso lithograph that is clearly signed in pencil "picasso"
would they say they cant accept it no matter how real it looked?
do they have there own experts who can make a call if the work is original or suspect? if there own in house people are satsified they'll sell it even without a COA?
do you think they'd tell me to take it for appraisal by the offical committee responsbile for the artist? that can cost a lot of money so i'm guessing it wouldnt be worth it?
picasso lithographs which are hand signed but not numbered, are they worth money or were they part of huge editions?
and finally any suggestions on getting an original drawing verified?
nothing would supprise me about fake stuff selling at any auction house but somehow i suspect a lot of real art by well known artists does get sold massively undervalued simply cause at least the average person at a place like ebay can sell the piece without any hassel. i know from family members who have sold before that big name auction houses require you to ship the work to them, you need insurance, then have to pay for advertising, then all the time involved in organising it with them. do you guys agree or is it wishful thinking someone would sell a real picasso litho for 400 when it should have sold for 3500.
i look forward to hearing back your responses. any advice or comments much appreciated
It is very difficult for a layman to get a graphic authenticated. You've picked the three artists who have been faked extensively. The bad news is you've likely purchased art that isn't even worth $400. as it's likely fake. Why E Bay would even be involved with a market that was aswarm with scandals in the 80's and 90's is beyond me -- a gallery chain in Southern California was closed down and two national gallery chains were shut down. People went to jail. Thousands of these prints were scuttled away and were not found by the authorities and now they started popping up in the market again. You would not be able to insure or donate the art for taxes without authentication and a current appraisal from an accredited appraiser. That would be the National Socity of Appraisers who have a website but be prepared to pay hundreds of dollars for real documentation and they still may not even be interested in provide any authentication (there's a rider on independent appraisals that state they are not authenticating the work). They may even not want to provide an appraisal at all. By all odds, I don't know why E Bay is still letting these people sell on the Internet. It used to be over the phone and especially the fake Dali's. If you didn't buy the art from a seller in your state, you probably can't even get the police involved. The FBI handled the art scandals in the past two decades and the art laws have been toughened up. You aren't suppose to even be able to sell art with a CofA and, unfortunately, if someone is going to fake the art, they will fake the CofA. I believe you've purchased a lot of overpriced dubious prints that have virtually no intrinsic value at all. Speculation in the art market is for the very wealthy who hire experts to authenticate what they've purchased. If one even buys from Sotheby's and Christie's, it's up to them to know if the work is authentic. Seems crazy but that's the way it is. If one does buy something that is not what is represented, they do have some legal recourse. What are these "power houses" you're talking about 'cause I thought E Bay threw out any users selling questionable art pieces?
If your read the fine print on these deals, you will see that you usually have one week in which to find an appraiser ON THEIR LIST who says the artwork is fake and send them proof.
In other words, they haven't had it documented, put the burden of proof on you, and only give you a week to do it.
If you read the fine print, they will also tell you that they have no idea if it is really a genuine work by that artist or not, and that they are not liable (even though they clearly stated it was by that artist in the description.)
I don't know whether this is legal or not, but it's definately shady and they are probably forging it themselves or buying up forgeries from flea markets like mad.
So, why don't you invest in some local artwork from a living artist who you like, or some prints from a reputable source?
Every time I see people buying that fake e-bay crap (and not my real , good art that I have tried a couple times to sell there) I think wow, those stupid suckers with too much money on their hands just got BURRRNEEDDD.
And, by the way, any lithograph that isn't numbered or an "A/P" isn't worth jack ****.
Trouble is, anyone can number and even sign a fake print. Many of these prints are signed in the plate, perhaps even by the artist, and then numbered by the publisher or distributor. E Bay is not off the hook if there is, in fact, criminal activity in faking the art. They put that rider in not to protect people but to protect themselves because they know full well the layman has really no way to get a piece of art authenticated. Seasoned, serious collectors do not buy art on E Bay.
If someone feels they've been taken by a piece of fake art, the first avenue is to take it to the police which could lead to the local District Attorney getting involved which likely might end up in the hands of the FBI. They broke the Dali fake scandal of the 80's but, as usual, were asleep over a decade because, like being raped, people were too self-conscious to turn a piece of fake art over to the authorities. That's exactly why pride is one of the seven deadly sins.
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