Evolution - Who wants to KNOW?

A system which does not interact with elements outside the system.

Ein: Does such a system exist on Earth, or our Solar System?

Earth is not a closed system, our solarsystem is close to being a closed system in that interactions with elements outside it are negligible.

Our solar system is all inclusive of our earth.

You think?

Where do you think our earth will be without our solar system?

I meant that in a duh sort of way.

Or actually lots of sunlight radiates out of our solar system, so it isn't really a closed system. What was your point anyway?

This debate has obviously gone on too long: Einherjar is debating with himself now.

Its part of the grand plan tto discuss evolution letter by letter. ill bet Bib is laughing in his (whatever the Irish believe is actual food).

oH, PS to joe-I see theyve delivered your "Special Award" That oughta become a standard in the pantheon of tacky Christmas decorations.
but thhen again, tacky christmas decorations is redundant .

Another way of understanding a "closed System" may involve "Heat Death" situations. Much has been said about the heat death of the universe, but one can view the petroleum reserves as an example. First caveat of this example must be the exclusion of all other forms of renewable energy sources. Shear numbers and our acquired standard of life make the use of these sources almost negligible compared with that of fossil fuels.

For a least a billion years our present reserve of fossil fuels have been slowly building up (This is a hint towards the present use of renewable fuels being incapable of replacing our present energy needs supported by fossil fuels). The fossil fuels can be viewed essentially as finite?-when they are gone they are gone for good.

Second in order for work to be done in such a closed system there must be an exchange of heat. We do this presently by burning those fossil fuels. These give off hot gases which in turn are used to either directly or indirectly to make things move thereby accomplishing work. Heat, like all energy, naturally flows from an area of high concentration to that of lower concentration. Once there is a homogeneous distribution of heat no more work can be done?-this is "heat death". Once all the fossil fuels are gone, the heat exchange to carry on our present civilization can no longer be accomplished. The Heat, like Einherjar's crystallized salt dropped into water, is evenly distributed through out the system and is no longer capable of performing work, either physical or chemical. (Einherjar's example of the separation of solid salt crystals from the aqueous solution is analogous to the formation and deposition of the fossil fuel reserves we draw from today).

This inevitable depletion of fossil fuels is certainly an imperfect example of a closed system but its eventual destiny of maximum entropy or chaos, seen in such a state of society, surely gives us a real world appreciation of fossil fuel loss and the heat death of civilization as we know it.

JM

Bibliophile,

I am lost. Is there any assigned reading you can give us?

Oh No!, You didn't just ask Bibliohile for a list of assigned reading did you? This is a guy who claims to have read every book on evolution (and everything else) ever written. And he's a master of cut/paste... I dread looking back at this thread later. The list is going to be excruciating. The A2K moderators are going to have to add more disk space to the server... Owwwwwwwwww.

rosborne, And I thought I was a slow learner. LOL

Bib is going to be beside himself with glee when he sees that request. We may have to call his wife to tear him away from the computer

A more interesting question is who amongst us will be reading all those new posts by Bib?

I suspect hes looking up something else.

rosborne,

My last post may have been a mistake. I was frustrated with Bibliophile's oblique approach to evolution. If he gives a list of sources, it would be easier to navigate this "debate".

wand, But Bib does provide us with sources - which he cuts and pates to suit his own arguments.

cicerone,

You are probably right. I was hoping Bibliophile might give titles of books or essays rather than skewed excerpts.