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Limited editions: How Do I Find Their Value?

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Feb, 2003 10:23 pm
aw sh1t , I am getting screwed again. I pay about 5k for an edition and then i sell my prints at shows .Since Im a newbie at it, i realize between 75 and 125 a print. its true Ive not completely sold out an edition yet but Im getting close on about 4 Of course ive been counting on buzz and appreciation. in value to make a difference.Ill have to rethink this entire thing. I use an outfit called Fox Press.They work with me quite well and we have an understanding as how I like my colors represented
The wildlife art market is a niche that, personally, Im in it because I like the artists. They are more gregarious outdoorsy types as well as artists.We get together socially and some of the more weklk known ones have not forgotten their roots and still enjoy discussing how they do their plein air work etc.
i used to do lithos (stone) and aquatints but, as you know, your pallette is limited by the actual time you have to print and the number of ground plates and stones you need.
What with the painting and then the marketing and showing, its a thing Ive looked at when I retire, because we have an RV and go to alot of the wildlife and decoy shows in the east and midwest. Also, I give a lot of my prints (by request0 to employees of many of my present mining clients. My lawyer has a conference room with my works and their partner in chare of the walls, gets a bunch of my prints for some of their clients as presents.,

Etching has always been an enjoyable thing, but lithos are a real PITA. Stones are expensive and accurate registry has never been my strong suite.
Well, I have no reason to doubt your valuable experience and I will have to consider--your words as iron. ill have to look at motorizing my bed press, or else Im going to have arms like , well somebody with huge arms.
If I have other questions,, I hope you dont mind me posting them . im getting to feel more comfortable with a2k. (Im wondering how all these people can post things without venom and hate- if this would have been on the abuzz, as it is now, there would be loonies busting in all over)

Well, gotta go watch The Quiet man on TCM, one of my favorite movies
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 01:12 am
Loved the quite man too, farmer.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 01:30 am
Also, an aside, farmerman, gwlight really does know this stuff.
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kayla
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 05:13 am
Well we certainly have learned a great deal, haven't we? Thanks GW. As I said before, I don't do prints of my work so I'm a babe in the woods when it comes to value, etc. I tried to figure it out once and came up with about a profit of $100-$200 for each print, but that was not including painting time. I'm sure there's all kinds of detail costs that I didn't figure in which would have brought the profit margin way down. I'm not into this for the profit anyway as I don't see myself as an icon in the art world in this life. Lately I've come to the realization that I paint for the sheer anxiety high I get. Not that it holds water, but I must tell you that the reason the gallery closed and donated the work was due to the death of one partner and the serious illness of the other. I'm checking out e-bay and the like for a reasonable market and will give my findings to the boss. The prints are only a small part of the creative arts program and simply for raising $$$ for supplies, etc for the developmentally disabled adults who are in the program so they can make and sell their own work which is truly original. How's that for a run on sentence?
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 10:52 am
I did some reproduction prints with one artist who was in my gallery and the retail price was $ 850.00, framed (custom framing adds a considerable amount to the price -- I used a wholesale framer and it's still difficult to frame an average size print for under $150.00. That means as I want to retail the framing, it would be $300.00. That leaves $550.00 for the print, so $ 225.00 goes to the artist, less the cost of printing. So your price, farmerman, for an unframed limited edition reproduction is possibly not out of line if you don't properly consider the printing cost. If you do consider that you are selling direct to the public (not a good way to entertain having a gallery represention), you should be selling the prints at double the printing cost plus around $10.00 each for signing them. If you were selling through a distributor or publisher and are able to get an independent contract (hard to come by without some clout), you'd only be able to get a 50% markup or one-and-a-half times the cost of printing and $5.00 to sign and number each print. If you intend to sell the public at a dealer wholesale, I'm guessing your price is not unrealistic (you didn't give me the size of your editions). This is not written in stone -- just bear in mind when these artists sign with a publisher, they are usually "selling their soul to the company store." The publisher will handle the copyrights which will list them as the originator of the art in print form (or at least a co-originator). The publishers will not let you deal directly with the public in any way, also more often including original paintings then not. It does take away many of your artist's rights so it has to include showing any contract to your own attorney (although publishers hate that -- they do not like not having the upper hand). Martin Lawrence Galleries had there own in-house attorneys to handle and enforce contractual agreements. I suspect that Bateman is signed to an exclusive with Millpond and has to trust their bookeeping. Same old story -- if you don't have an attorney, you can't tell if you're being cheated.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 11:10 am
kayla -- you have to consider time to create an original and that can be averaged out at so much per square inch for different sizes in the same medium. A new artist can rarely get more than $50.00 per hour for a painting. So if an artwork takes ten hour to paint, it's $500.00. In that case in a gallery, that would sell for $1000.00. However, abstracts can take considerably less time and this brings up the consideration of what intrinsic value (the innate talent and skill, the art education, et al) can be attached to the work. This would usually mean the work that's $500.00 could be easily priced at $1000.00 and sell in the gallery for $2000.00. It is difficult for a collector to find a good original oil paintings, for instance, for less than $2000.00 and it's also difficult to break the $5000.00 barrier. Large, successful abstracts are often more subjectively priced so a very large painting, say 5' x 7', would likely be in the $4,000. to $5000.00 price range for a new artist. It's all in a discerning taste and the gallery owner is the starting off place in that regard. They know their collectors and how to price. This is just information and advice for artists and their marketing considerations.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 06:39 pm
GW , Ive kept my editions down to 500 , I only had one run of 1000, and , to my amazement, Fox provided neat folders for the work. I did a Bufflehead duck pair and had each print sealed in the flat folder with a gold doobie to act like a "wax seal ring " where the envelope point met . I had none of these out , I only had one displayed in a frame . The neat giant envelope could be brought out, opened for the customer and I signed it at the show. It was a real good market trick. Everybody saw the framed and then the picture inside the neat envelope and (I added a foam core back stiffener into the envelope. The people got the experience of me signing and it was almost like a trip to a notary. Im sure I lost out but I sold them for 90$ and, with the printing and the envelope and my booth fee and expenses It probably cost me about 25$ a print., considering I sold about 125 at that duck show .I learned that the fixed expenses are a killer unless you can sell alot then they go down accordingly.

We collect block prints by a New Jersey artist named Luigi Rist. He did woodblocks of fruit, vegeggies, fish, other dinner items and a few of poker hands. His work is neat, but we collected it to appreciate the multiple registrations. We have 2 versions of the same print of eggplants (apparently a tough concept to print) but each one is different.

Our own print collection is rather big and most of them are not on walls but in a map cabinett

Youve helped explain a lot of the mysteries of big edition multilith prints.
I have an artist friend whose been doing Iris prints and I wonder about their light fastness.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 06:41 pm
GW , Ive kept my editions down to 500 , I only had one run of 1000, and , to my amazement, Fox provided neat folders for the work. I did a Bufflehead duck pair and had each print sealed in the flat folder with a gold doobie to act like a "wax seal ring " where the envelope point met . I had none of these out , I only had one displayed in a frame . The neat giant envelope could be brought out, opened for the customer and I signed it at the show. It was a real good market trick. Everybody saw the framed and then the picture inside the neat envelope and (I added a foam core back stiffener into the envelope. The people got the experience of me signing and it was almost like a trip to a notary. Im sure I lost out but I sold them for 90$ and, with the printing and the envelope and my booth fee and expenses It probably cost me about 25$ a print., considering I sold about 125 at that duck show .I learned that the fixed expenses are a killer unless you can sell alot then they go down accordingly.

We collect block prints by a New Jersey artist named Luigi Rist. He did woodblocks of fruit, vegeggies, fish, other dinner items and a few of poker hands. His work is neat, but we collected it to appreciate the multiple registrations. We have 2 versions of the same print of eggplants (apparently a tough concept to print) but each one is different.

Our own print collection is rather big and most of them are not on walls but in a map cabinett

Youve helped explain a lot of the mysteries of big edition multilith prints.
I have an artist friend whose been doing Iris prints and I wonder about their light fastness.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 07:38 pm
We're talking photo-offset lithography, right, farmerman? Also, what size were the prints?
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Feb, 2003 07:44 pm
It's now considered a standard of the art industry to keep editions below 350. When one gets into editions as large as 500 and 1000. the price has to come down accordingly. Of course, lithography set-ups (computer scanning, color seperation and printing) are expensive and it doesn't make sense to do runs under 500 -- more ideally, over 2,500. I know you are trying to keep the price in line with Millpond who adds the publisher profit into the mix and so artists like Bateman are at $200.00 plus for new editions. Giclee inks are fully tested and on a good substrate (canvas actually being the best), the colors should not change or fade until after sixty years. I'm not sure I trust the testing proceedure as there is really no way to speed up what chemically happens to pigments and binders other than ultraviolet exposure. Commercial lithograph inks on a good paper (100% buffered cotton) have a much shorter life as they use a lot of vegetable dyes.
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JET37
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jan, 2010 01:39 pm
@Lightwizard,
Hi,
I saw your post on able2know. I have three framed Hiro Yamagata serigraphs in perfect condition that I purchased about 25 - 30 years ago from Martin Lawrence galeries in Sherman Oaks: Concert in the Park, Fallen Leaves, and Snowfire. I have the certificates of tirage that came with them and (almost certainly) the original receipts. I need appraisals for insurance -- accurate, not BS. Can you suggest someone?

Thanks,

JET
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lnb201lnb310
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 May, 2014 12:43 pm
@Lightwizard,
hello i have 4 small sized paintings water colours prints im not sure and i do not want to take them out of there frames any way 1 is the ruby throated humming bird with the honey suckles the moose head the eagle flying with wings down and a red cardinal one they are 1978 and 1983 i looked on line on found some prices one has a c in front of bateman s signature i would like to know how to tell what they are and there prices and the best way to sell them
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Clausy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2016 09:45 am
@farmerman,
Farmerman - Are you a print broker?
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Wemmons
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2016 08:15 am
We have a Bateman limited edition with the numbers in the left hand side
of the corner and we would like to sell it . It's Cardinal and wild apples. Does anyone know it's worth? Thanks,Wayne in Ottawa Canada
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2016 08:36 am
Jeez, from 2003, Two folks who are no longer with us, Joanne Dorel (I think she passed away), and our own "genius of the print" LIGHTWIZ. I miss him too.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2016 08:38 am
@Wemmons ,
I have a bunch of BAteman, they dont hold up too well and dont believe they do. Ive been collecting them for years since I like his style. Forget the value unless you got em at a yard sale or for free.

I paid about 700$ for his "wolves in the night" and its barely qorth 100 now
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