edgarblythe wrote:I hope Frank Apisa doesn't see this: Ain't no heaven; ain't nobody getting in.
Since Frank ain't here yet I shall berate you for this typically dogmatic statement!
Frank will get to the Pearly Gates and spend eternity arguing with St. Peter.
If there is a Heaven....and if people earn entrance into that place by living a thruthful and ethical existence...
...my guess is that agnostics will be the dominant philosophical bent to attain it.
I used to think I was an agnostic, but now I'm not sure...
Yer all gonna be sorry when you find out the Jews were right.
BBB
I agree with Frank---except the first assumption: There is a heaven?
BBB
I've given this a little more thought and I believe the answer will be the almighty dollar.
"I don't know but I've been told
the streets of heaven are paved with gold.
I don't know how things could get much worse,
unless, of course, the Russians was to get up there first."
If they monetize that gold in Euros I'm afraid your going to be out of luck.
My apologies for the following joke, and sincere wishes for the speedy recovery of John Paul II:
A Cardinal came running in to see the Pope.
"Your Holiness! We've just received a telephone call from Jesus Christ, and he has good news and bad news," announced the Cardinal.
"That's wonderful!" said the Pope. "What is the good news?"
The Cardinal replied, "He said he has returned for the second coming to claim all the true believers and enter them into the Kingdom of Heaven."
"Praise God," said the Pope. "And what is the bad news?"
"He was calling from Salt Lake City..."
I had a High School history teacher who sincerely believed that 90% of the people in Heaven would be Methodists, and the remaining 10% would be people who never had the chance to become Methodists but who would have if they could have.
My brother-in-law's stepmother cites some passage (in Revelations?) that says there will only be 10,000 or so admitted to Heaven. She says she will be one of them. I believe she is a Baptist, or maybe Assembly of God.
My aunt, also Baptist, was horrified that she was going to Heaven while her unbaptized husband would not- they would spend eternity apart. Although he didn't really believe, he got baptized just to make her happy. Seems to me that wouldn't really count, anyway, if his heart wasn't in it.
Personally, I believe either we're all going to Heaven, or else none of us are.
wasn't cav's entry just a gem ? he can still make us smile ! hbg
Equus, I really liked that joke. I will have to pass it around to my friends. On a personal note, I was raised Catholic and my husband was raised a Southern Baptist. We respect our belief system but damn, sometimes we have the most interesting conversations. Yesterday, I gave my best shot trying to explain that the Pope is not a deity but simply the Head of the Catholic Church. And I have to admit he is correct when he asked why do the people in the presence of the Pope act with such reverence. I couldn't think of a Baptist companion behaviour that mimics the adoration of the Pope. But even when I was a little girl, the nuns and priests (although mortal) were always treated with a great deal of respect. Well unless you count the time my Dad was called in to discuss my brothers poor grade in Religion. Dad asked just how serious was it? Sister Catherine Anne told Dad that if Michael didn't improve he could be kept back a year. Dad thought about this for a second then asked the hypothetical. "Sister, say you keep the child back a year for poor understanding of church doctrine, even though all his other grades are excellent, He repeats the grade again and once again he fails to meet the standards of the religion class, What happens then? Sister Catherine Anne said "Oh I hardly think that's likely, Mr G". But Dad insisted, he wanted to know if his son could be held back twice and the nun agreed that theorectically, he could be held back again. Dad paused a moment as if in deep thought, then looked her in the eye as asked "What happens then, if he continues to do poorly, will you bust him back to being a Protestant". Sister Catherine Anne didn't seen to think that was funny, but it was a moment I love to think about.
On my father's side of the family, everyone was Irish Catholic but on my Mother's side, everyone was Irish Episcopalian. Your denomination didn't matter much in our family, it was important to be honest, work hard, help the less fortunate, etc. etc.
I did attend Catholic Schools all my life, but the various practices of the world's numerous religions has always fascinated me. Breaking things down to the base, religious beliefs urge people to lead good and honest lives. It's only when the zealots get involved that the message gets corrupted.
Sorry to go on so long, but your joke made me laugh.
why are we even having this discussion. if you read the bible it says the only way to heaven is through Christ. So God is not going to look at what denomination you are. but what matters is if you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.
What about Matthew 7:21-23?
"21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Even according to the Bible, accepting Jesus as your 'Lord' wont get you to heaven.
"but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
Only those who 'do the will of the Father' will go to heaven. So what is the Father's will?
1 Timothy 2:3-4
"3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
So it is the will of God that all men (and women?) are saved and "come unto the knowledge of the truth."
So what is the truth? All denominations have different views and doctrines on what is the truth. Which one is right (if any)?
Beer is the only true thing! Therefore anyone who drinks beer will go to heaven! Praise the Lord!
you are correct in saying that from Timothy. I will revise what I said and say this. Denomination still does not matter. It's if you accept Christ and do his will.
Okay. What about all the people born before Christ, or who died without ever hearing about him. Are they all in Hell?
I can say in the Old Testament they could be forgiven. But it required slaughtering of animals as a sacrifice.
Quote:you are correct in saying that from Timothy. I will revise what I said and say this. Denomination still does not matter. It's if you accept Christ and do his will.
What is his will? Isn't it that we come to an accurate knowledge of truth? (1 Timothy 2:3-4) If all denominations dont agree on what is truth (which they dont) then how can they all be doing God's will?
Quote:I can say in the Old Testament they could be forgiven. But it required slaughtering of animals as a sacrifice.
Lets say someone was around before christ and he sacrificed animals to atone for his sins. Then one day he commits a sin and dies afterward without having the chance to sacrifice an animal for that particular sin. Does he go to hell?
Another thought on this:
Acts 2:34 - "For David did not ascend into the heavens."
David, one of the most faithful people in the old testament times did not go to heaven. Where did he go? Theres only heaven and hell right? <gulp>
I'm not trying to pick on you here man, just trying to see what you beleive and why.
I would assume God's will is to follow his commandments, or attempt so do do, or attempt to find out what they are.
In other words, I think God's will is to act well in our own sphere, whether that be a christian sphere, or a jewish sphere, or an agnostic sphere.
God's will doesn't only apply to those who have come to a knowledge of all truth.
As for David, it makes more sense that there would be different levels of rewards, rather than just heaven or hell. To take one of Christs examples, even we understand the principle of degrees of good and bad, and our judges execute different degrees of punishment or reward. If God is so much more intelligent than us, than surely he's figured out this principle.
So, while david may not dwell with God, that doesn't mean he's chill'n with The Villain.
*Ahem* sorry.
Nice thoughts SCoates.
We could all come up with theories of our own but without proof or something to say what is actually TRUE, then we are just stabbing in the dark. Christians will tell you the bible is the thing that says what is actually true.
Type in 'will of God' into the bible.com search and see what the bible says about it. Its quite interesting to compare what it says to what christians say. You gotta wonder sometimes if they even read their own book.
Personally I am niether hither nor thither (both of those are real words).