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Science Deniers are Everywhere

 
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 09:24 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Global warming happens to be a particularly urgent issue right now politically. But anyone who says that only conservatives deny science is simply incorrect.

Conservatives globally do not deny climate change. This is a uniquely American phenomenon, stemming from decades of disinformation targeted at the US and specifically at the Republicans.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 10:37 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
This is a uniquely American phenomenon, stemming from decades of disinformation targeted at the US and specifically at the Republicans


I doubt this is correct. America has a winner take all electoral system which does lead to parties taking opposing views (as opposed to a parliamentary system). But it isn't hard to find people advocating climate change denial in other countries.

I am not making excuses for our current leadership (which I think is horrific)... but I don't accept the idea that Americans are any more human (i.e. susceptible to human foibles) than anyone else.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 10:57 am
@maxdancona,
I didn't mean to imply that Americans are "more susceptible to human foibles than anyone else." What I mean is that in other countries, GW deniers do not commend a majority in any mainstream party, right or left. Elsewhere, they are always marginal, and have no political weight. Only in America do they represent a serious political force (not to mention one in power right now).

Edit: and I attribute this fact to a disinformation campaign funded in majority by US fossil fuel companies, for the specific purpose of blocking regulations that could hurt their business in America, or elsewhere for that matter.

camlok
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 11:09 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
but I don't accept the idea that Americans are any more human (i.e. susceptible to human foibles) than anyone else.


They are uniquely delusional, Max. You're a dandy example.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 11:15 am
When the US was part of the Accords CC Alarmists were still bleating about how much more had to be done, and that the agreement amounted to too little too late. If that's the case, America's withdrawal is immaterial.

In any case, no nation has or will take steps that might seriously harm its economy without a lot more certainty of the necessity than exists today.

The US was being asked to sacrifice its prosperity for the sake of the world while nations that are just as deep in whatever soup there actually is, and who are just as responsible for the cooking of that soup were given dispensations because they haven't had a chance yet to be as wealthy as America.




camlok
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 11:38 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
were given dispensations because they haven't had a chance yet to be as wealthy as America.


They just think it is fair to get back some of the money the US stole from them over the centuries. Fair is fair, Finn.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 02:23 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Edit: and I attribute this fact to a disinformation campaign funded in majority by US fossil fuel companies, for the specific purpose of blocking regulations that could hurt their business in America, or elsewhere for that matter.


Do you have any evidence to support this "attribution" Do European fossil fuel companies behave differently from American ones?
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 02:35 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Conservatives globally do not deny climate change. This is a uniquely American phenomenon, stemming from decades of disinformation targeted at the US and specifically at the Republicans.


fascinating isn't it

political conservatives in other countries have more mainstream takes on science in general, climate change specifically

the whole phenomenon of the muscularly anti-Science American is interesting - some of the research I've read on it suggests it has to do with the specific way the US was settled
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 02:56 pm
@georgeob1,
He must because he has made it very clear that he doesn't accept the post-truth age and would never state anything he couldn't prove.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 03:08 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

the whole phenomenon of the muscularly anti-Science American is interesting - some of the research I've read on it suggests it has to do with the specific way the US was settled


The whole phenomenon of the muscularly anti-Science American is anti-American nonsense.

What is really interesting is the whole phenomenon of the wimpy anti-masculinity Canadian (hockey players and fur-trappers excepted).
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 03:36 pm
Latest news is that France Italy and Germany issued a joint statement that the Paris Accords can't be renegotiated.

So the earth must burn because of the petulance of European leaders.

Just what you would expect from responsible world leaders facing doomsday.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 04:16 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
That's funny Finn. It is nice to see you still have your sense of humor.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 04:17 pm
@maxdancona,
When did you ever doubt I had a sense of humor?
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  4  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 04:41 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I don't know any wimpy Canadians, you think you do?
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 05:54 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Global warming happens to be a particularly urgent issue right now politically. But anyone who says that only conservatives deny science is simply incorrect.

Conservatives globally do not deny climate change. This is a uniquely American phenomenon, stemming from decades of disinformation targeted at the US and specifically at the Republicans.


Aren't politicians in Europe as anti-GMO as politicians in the US are anti-Climate Change?

I won't argue the severity... but the basic practice of ignoring science seems equivalent. It leads to an interesting question, is Europe so receptive to climate science because the scientific evidence is so compelling... or is it because the message on climate change fits into an overall political theme that is currently popular.

New York Times wrote:
CALL it the “Coalition of the Ignorant.” By the first week of October, 17 European countries — including Austria, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, the Netherlands and Poland — had used new European Union rules to announce bans on the cultivation of genetically modified crops.

These prohibitions expose the worrying reality of how far Europe has gone in setting itself against modern science. True, the bans do not apply directly to scientific research, and a few countries — led by England — have declared themselves open to cultivation of genetically modified organisms, or G.M.O.s. But the chilling effect on biotech science in Europe will be dramatic: Why would anyone spend years developing genetically modified crops in the knowledge that they will most likely be outlawed by government fiat?

In effect, the Continent is shutting up shop for an entire field of human scientific and technological endeavor. This is analogous to America’s declaring an automobile boycott in 1910, or Europe’s prohibiting the printing press in the 15th century.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/25/opinion/sunday/with-gmo-policies-europe-turns-against-science.html?_r=0

0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 08:48 pm
I was reading an article in our daily newspaper today and in it was this wonderful piece
Quote:
Scientists say Earth is likely to reach more dangerous levels of warming sooner as a result of the president’s decision because America’s pollution contributes so much to rising temperatures. Calculations suggest withdrawal from the Paris accord could result in emissions of up to 3 billion tons of additional carbon dioxide a year — enough to melt ice sheets faster, raise seas higher and trigger more extreme weather.


I had to explain to my daughter that THIS is why "scientists" can't be trusted. They have become paid shills spouting off about whatever is paying them.

Reading the above quote, can you explain to me why that is a perfect example of why we sometimes cannot trust scientists?
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 08:59 pm
@McGentrix,
actually "newspaper writers say that "SCIENTISTS SAY"". Did THEY identify the "Scientists"?
camlok
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 09:00 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
Reading the above quote, can you explain to me why that is a perfect example of why we sometimes cannot trust scientists?


I don't need the quote, McG. All I needed to know that we sometimes cannot trust scientists is that you said you are one. farmerman too, and Max and your other cohorts, layman, guijohn, ... .

Birds of a feather.
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 09:07 pm
Here's a great expose of the incredible science denial that has gone on since 2001.


Quote:

Propaganda Can’t Melt Steel Beams

Eleven years ago, I initiated a discussion about the fact that jet fuel fires could not have melted steel at the World Trade Center. The government agency investigating the WTC destruction responded by holding “some of its deliberations in secret.” Although it’s not a secret that jet fuel can’t melt steel, due to propaganda from sources like The Washington Post and The Huffington Post, Americans often get confused about what facts like that mean to any national discussion. In a nutshell, what it means is that the molten metal found at the WTC, for which there is a great deal of evidence, cannot be explained by the official 9/11 myth.

No one thinks that jet fuel fires can melt steel beams—not even The Posts’ new science champion, who doesn’t bother to actually use jet fuel or steel beams to teach us about “retarded metallurgical things.” Instead, he uses a thin metal rod and a blacksmith forge to imply that, if the WTC buildings were made of thin metal rods and there were lots of blacksmith forges there, the thin metal rods would have lost strength and this would be the result. If you buy that as an explanation for what happened at the WTC, you might agree that everyone should just stop questioning 9/11.

This absurd demonstration highlights at least two major problems with America’s ongoing struggle to understand 9/11. The first is that there was a great deal of molten metal at the WTC. Those who know that fact sometimes share internet memes that say “Jet Fuel Can’t Melt Steel Beams” when they want to convey that “Thermite Melted Steel at the WTC.” The second major problem is that certain mainstream media sources continue to put a lot of energy into dis-informing the public about 9/11.

Sources like The Posts, The New York Times and some “alternative media” continue to work hard to support the official myth of 9/11. That effort is not easy because they must do so while providing as little actual information about 9/11 as possible. The dumbing down of the average citizen is a full time job for such propagandists. Luckily for them, American students receive almost no historical context that encourages them to think critically or consider ideas that conflict with blind allegiance to their government. When it comes to the WTC, it also helps that almost 80% of Americans are scientifically illiterate.

As media companies attempt to confuse the public about 9/11, they must avoid relating details that might actually get citizens interested in the subject. For example, it’s imperative that they never mention any of these fourteen facts about 9/11. It is also important to never reference certain people, like the ordnance distribution expert (and Iran-Contra suspect) who managed security at the WTC or the tortured top al Qaeda leader who turned out to have nothing to do with al Qaeda. In fact, to support the official myth of 9/11 these days, media must ignore almost every aspect of the crimes while promoting only the most mindless nonsense they can find. Unfortunately, that bewildering strategy becomes more obvious every day.

http://911blogger.com/news/2015-12-20/propaganda-can-t-melt-steel-beams

0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2017 09:11 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

actually "newspaper writers say that "SCIENTISTS SAY"". Did THEY identify the "Scientists"?


Probably the same as "administration officials" but since you guys trust those guys, you must trust these guys to, right?
 

 
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