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Belgium: highest court finds popular Flemish party racist

 
 
australia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 04:42 am
Clearly freedom of speech is out in certain topics. I won't say anything more for fear of being sent to the gulag.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 05:29 am
Stop whining, australia. See this answer re: the freedom of speech fallacy. And here its even less apt. You asked a question, you got your answer, if a bit curt. Are you going to consider everyone who's rude to you now an example of your freedom of speech being attacked? (Not to mention deportation awaiting ...?). Get a grip already, be a man about it. And if you sincerely think anyone crossed the lines of decency (or rather, this site's TOS), you can always click "report" to the right of the post.
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australia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Dec, 2004 05:41 am
No, I am going to sulk about it.
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Cobaltzzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 04:49 am
It is no wonder that the US is disliked so much. After reading more than the last half of this thread it is obvious that none of you have a clue of what Freedom of Speech is. Here is a tip - if you are in a country and you are discussing the effects of a policy on your Freedom of Speech, guess what you never had it to start with. If your country can stop a book from being published, guess what never had it. If your country in any way owns, controls, or has a large influence on your media, you never had it.

If you are in a country where your citizens are considering a vote on immigration of Islamic people you not only never had Freedom of Speech you never fully grasped the true meaning of Democracy. Your countries allowed a massive influx of Arabian people to gain influence with the Arabian Oil producing countries with no thought of the need to integrate them into your society creating a blend of shared ideas and beliefs all guaranteed the freedoms to do and say what you want. This open method allows immigrants to feel they matter and eventually feel they are true loyal citizens of your country. The Islamic people in America are simply another belief that is integrated in the US society as are Italians (me) or any other culture. Why Italians or Arabians are simply Americans. You folk that secluded them in certain areas and never considered them an equal part of your country are screwed. France has to pass a law forbidding certain Islamic dress codes. Why they never felt a part of France. In the US no one cared but Islam's dress not as Muslims but as normal Americans. The reason is they are Americans. Why we have no crimes in the name of Allah over a passage in a book. It would not even occur to Muslims here to do that because as Americans they guard the freedoms we have as the rest of America does.

I could go on for days. You do not know what Freedom is you do not live in a free society either. Your governments control your media and control your thoughts. You hate this or that through the manipulations of your thoughts. You folk are in for a shock as the Muslims in your country try to take it over.

Your media hates America and tried to influence our election. Like countries that are not truly free can in any way effect the votes of the free. We vote as we please. We have no emotional dislike of your countries or of your people. That would be judgment of all by the actions of the few in other words Un-American. We do think your funny as hell but humor is protected here also. Some of the stuff I read, you kids kill me. I am hoping I misunderstood the forum and it is some kind of joke/humor thread. If not you folk have no clue.
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australia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 06:09 am
Just to make it clear cobaltzzz, I am the only one who has no clue. All the rest of the european guys in this thread have been arguing the same thing as you state. So don't have a go at them. Have a go at just me.
0 Replies
 
Einherjar
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 06:58 am
Cobaltzzz wrote:
It is no wonder that the US is disliked so much. After reading more than the last half of this thread it is obvious that none of you have a clue of what Freedom of Speech is. Here is a tip - if you are in a country and you are discussing the effects of a policy on your Freedom of Speech, guess what you never had it to start with. If your country can stop a book from being published, guess what never had it. If your country in any way owns, controls, or has a large influence on your media, you never had it.

If you are in a country where your citizens are considering a vote on immigration of Islamic people you not only never had Freedom of Speech you never fully grasped the true meaning of Democracy. Your countries allowed a massive influx of Arabian people to gain influence with the Arabian Oil producing countries with no thought of the need to integrate them into your society creating a blend of shared ideas and beliefs all guaranteed the freedoms to do and say what you want. This open method allows immigrants to feel they matter and eventually feel they are true loyal citizens of your country. The Islamic people in America are simply another belief that is integrated in the US society as are Italians (me) or any other culture. Why Italians or Arabians are simply Americans. You folk that secluded them in certain areas and never considered them an equal part of your country are screwed. France has to pass a law forbidding certain Islamic dress codes. Why they never felt a part of France. In the US no one cared but Islam's dress not as Muslims but as normal Americans. The reason is they are Americans. Why we have no crimes in the name of Allah over a passage in a book. It would not even occur to Muslims here to do that because as Americans they guard the freedoms we have as the rest of America does.

I could go on for days. You do not know what Freedom is you do not live in a free society either. Your governments control your media and control your thoughts. You hate this or that through the manipulations of your thoughts. You folk are in for a shock as the Muslims in your country try to take it over.

Your media hates America and tried to influence our election. Like countries that are not truly free can in any way effect the votes of the free. We vote as we please. We have no emotional dislike of your countries or of your people. That would be judgment of all by the actions of the few in other words Un-American. We do think your funny as hell but humor is protected here also. Some of the stuff I read, you kids kill me. I am hoping I misunderstood the forum and it is some kind of joke/humor thread. If not you folk have no clue.


massacring the strawmen we are.

1. Freedom of speech has limitations in the US as well.

2. A referendum on muslim immigration would absolutely be democratic. You are mixing up democracy with other principles.

3. A ban on muslim immigration is not being considered in any european nation, it is only being advocated by 'australia' (poster not country).

4. The vast majority of European muslims are assimilating just fine. A minority has formed an anticulture, defining themselves in contrast to society in general. They, or at least their extreemists, as well as a few right wing nuts, are the problem.

5. It is my impression that islamophobia is far more widespread in the states than here in europe.

6. The militantly secular French have banned all religious artifacts in their schools, not just muslim ones. I think this was done in order to discourage self segregation, and thus help integration. This is the exeption not the rule in Europe.

7. "You folk that secluded them in certain areas and never considered them an equal part of your country are screwed." Who???

8. This bit "We have no emotional dislike of your countries or of your people. That would be judgment of all by the actions of the few in other words Un-American." in light of your tirade is hilarious.

Quote:
You do not know what Freedom is you do not live in a free society either. Your governments control your media and control your thoughts. You hate this or that through the manipulations of your thoughts.


Care to substantiate these allegations?
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australia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 07:15 am
Well argued Einherjar.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 11:06 am
Cobaltzzz

Welcome to A2K.

You'll certainly find here more and different threads, which might interest you.

Just a little remark:

perhaps you inform you a bit about the subject before writing about it? Especially about who manipultaes whom and where?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 11:07 am
Thanks for answering this here, Einherjar.

I fully agree.
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Cobaltzzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 03:35 pm
Well Einherjar's remarks were correct in most cases but my post was more of pointing out the degree of your misunderstanding of Americans than anything else. As for my understanding of Europeons it is less. I will say the only limits of Free Speech I know of in America is that you cannot yell fire in a movie theatre lol. They print Top Secret government papers. As for your integration of Muslims I really do not know just what I read in a magizine; the article was written by a European.
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Cobaltzzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 06:09 pm
Well I have checked and all experts foreign and American agree Muslims in Europe are not assimilated into society. THEY DO NOT WANT TO BE!!!!!!!! They also all agree you have screwed up and have one hell of a problem. Therefore, I assume the rest of your post was lies. Since I do not have the time to research every post here I will go find one that has true information posted.

You have no Freedom of Speech
You do not live in true Democracies
You are either morons or liars

Think what you want about America I care little we can take care of ourselves and we live in a free and thruthful society.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 09:42 pm
australia wrote:
No, I am going to sulk about it.

LOL

You may have some of the most offensive opinions on the board, australia, but you're a funny guy, and always lighthearted. I like that.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 09:43 pm
Cobaltzzz wrote:
As for your integration of Muslims I really do not know just what I read in a magizine; the article was written by a European.

Well, that settles it then.
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Cobaltzzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 11:16 pm
Well if all the experts agree yours and ours than you are wrong. Two that voiced the same opinion were Nobel Prize winners. Not sure how you folk view Nobel winners but here in the States we highly regard them. No matter what country they come from they are the best of the best. Neither of the Nobel winners were American. They had some long term views you would not like. Short explanation buy a Koran and learn it.
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Cobaltzzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 11:24 pm
Now Nimh that was a nice post. Not sure what it meant but at least seemed to be non-confrontational. As for humor I have a great bit. I wrote a post the response was I was wrong on every point. I first said sorry than researched it and was right on every point.

If you have any actual facts to back up your misinformed opinions please post them. Anything else you post is just your deluded ramblings.

Is there any one from France on this forum?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2004 01:57 am
Cobaltzzz wrote:

Is there any one from France on this forum?


Yes. Among our nearly 30,000 members there are some.

(Welcome to A2K, if I forgot that, btw.)
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2004 02:01 am
As Walter said, yes!
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2004 05:34 pm
Cobaltzzz wrote:
Now Nimh that was a nice post. Not sure what it meant but at least seemed to be non-confrontational.

I'm afraid I have to own up here ... I was being sarcastic. Alas.

Cobaltzzz wrote:
If you have any actual facts to back up your misinformed opinions please post them. Anything else you post is just your deluded ramblings.

Facts on what exactly? On that "Muslims in Europe are not assimilated into society and THEY DO NOT WANT TO BE!!!!!!!!"? Well, bunch of my colleagues are Muslim, they seem pretty integrated to me - that a good fact?

Also, I posted a lot of stuff on this other thread we have going on re: a related topic: Anti-Muslim Dutch politicians in hiding after death threats.

As for posting actual facts, do you want to specify what Nobel Prize winners you were talking about and what they actually said?
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Einherjar
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Dec, 2004 10:56 pm
Cobaltzzz wrote:
Well I have checked and all experts foreign and American agree Muslims in Europe are not assimilated into society. THEY DO NOT WANT TO BE!!!!!!!!


Did you even read my post? A minority of muslims have formed an anticulture, identifying themselves in contrast to society in general. These do not want integration, and they are a problem. They are also a small minority among european muslims. All of this was covered in my post.

Quote:
They also all agree you have screwed up and have one hell of a problem. Therefore, I assume the rest of your post was lies.


Too bad you didn't come up with anything I hadn't already covered. Unless you can come up with evidence that the muslim anticulture is widespread that is.

Quote:
Since I do not have the time to research every post here I will go find one that has true information posted.

You have no Freedom of Speech
You do not live in true Democracies
You are either morons or liars

Think what you want about America I care little we can take care of ourselves and we live in a free and thruthful society.


Yes, yes, very truthful, you haven't lied at all. Rolling Eyes You don't even bother to research your opinions.

Name one EU nation which does not have a democratic form of government, and what you find to be undemocratic.

Come up with one verifiable lie in any of my posts.

Explain to me what laws infringe upon my freedom of speach.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Dec, 2004 09:19 am
bookmark
0 Replies
 
 

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