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Socialism and California

 
 
Reply Mon 8 May, 2017 06:46 am

http://thefederalistpapers.org/us/sad-what-socialism-did-to-california-summed-up-by-one-meme
 
Senter
 
  4  
Reply Mon 11 Sep, 2017 09:43 am
@gungasnake,
California is not socialism nor legislating socialism. What they have is "socialist-type reforms" in a capitalist economy run by a pro-capitalist government. So if there was a failure of policy, it was a failure of the pro-capitalist government and not of socialism.
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 11 Sep, 2017 05:19 pm
@Senter,
CA is not a pro-capitalist government, they are a pro-tax govt and could careless about businesses that reside there or what they require to continue to be successful. CA only cares about what taxes fee and regulatory costs they can get out of business so that they can enforce their socialist agenda on the people of CA, they are the epitome of spend, spend and tax.

The other problem with CA and other states like them is the brain washing they have done on their populace. They screw their states up and then people move, but the problem is the stupid ass people who leave those states go to their new states and then vote for the same stupid laws and taxes that ruined their old state. They don't see it was how and who they voted for that caused the problems in the first place.

Quote:
So if there was a failure of policy, it was a failure of the pro-capitalist government and not of socialism.

This is the very reason why what I described above takes place, it's never the leftist policies that are wrong, it's Capitalism fault...
Senter
 
  3  
Reply Sun 8 Oct, 2017 01:01 pm
@Baldimo,
The California government does not advocate ending capitalism in favor of worker-owned, worker-controlled cooperatives, nationalization of banks, nationalization of the oil industry, or any other industry. But they do advance reforms to improve capitalism and make it more "acceptable". It is these people-friendly reforms that you are tricked into thinking comprise a "socialist agenda", even though they preserve private ownership of business and the right to privately profit from them.

Hence California is capitalist.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Mon 9 Oct, 2017 10:23 am
@Senter,
Quote:
The California government does not advocate ending capitalism in favor of worker-owned, worker-controlled cooperatives, nationalization of banks, nationalization of the oil industry, or any other industry.

Why kill the cow and end the milk? You are foolish if you think there are none of these people in political control of CA. Did you hear that they recently made it legal to no longer let a potential sex partner know you have HIV? Did you also hear that they can now jail you for using the wrong gender pronoun for someone? Insanity I tell you, CA is bat **** crazy, there are many reasons why I left CA and moved back to CO. The problem is those CA assholes are moving to CO and trying to make CO into CA...
Senter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Oct, 2017 08:56 pm
@Baldimo,
Fine, but the discussion was about your comment in which you said "CA is not a pro-capitalist government". I showed that CA is nothing else, so now you switch to a rant about their BS reforms. Couldn't you stand being wrong about "CA is not a pro-capitalist government"?
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Tue 10 Oct, 2017 10:09 am
@Senter,
Quote:
Fine, but the discussion was about your comment in which you said "CA is not a pro-capitalist government". I showed that CA is nothing else, so now you switch to a rant about their BS reforms. Couldn't you stand being wrong about "CA is not a pro-capitalist government"?

They are not a pro-capitalist government, they are a pro-tax govt that tolerates capitalism because it makes them tax money which enables them to have a massive overburdened social safety net. They do not seek to lower their corp tax rate and neither do they care about the regulations they impose on companies. They choose to attack companies who do not tow their liberal progressive line, aka threaten construction companies who put bids in to build the wall with a loss of current or future contracts. There are cities in the state that are indeed pro-capitalism but the state as a whole and that includes their top politicians are not.

I was once listening to Ed Schultz and he had some leftist economist on with him. Ed asked why cities and states should allow companies into their locations, his only answer was "taxes, it's the only reason to have a company move to your area...". This the "pro-capitalist" left who infest CA.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Oct, 2017 10:16 am
@Baldimo,
The Corporate tax rate in CA doesn't need to be lowered. Corporations in CA have been making money hand over fist since 2009. Why would we lower their taxes? So they can have even more cash on hand to sit on?

Any corporation who thinks that CA's taxes are too high should leave. Immediately. Go right on, nobody's stopping them from doing so. What's that? They're not sprinting to the exit? Why do you think that is?

Quote:
They choose to attack companies who do not tow their liberal progressive line, aka threaten construction companies who put bids in to build the wall with a loss of current or future contracts.


Yaknow, the reason CA confuses you Republicans so much is that all you care about and understand is money and greed. Nothing matters to you but profits and personal enrichment. The idea that the people of CA could, as a state, want nothing to do with the utter trash that would willingly work on building a useless and unnecessary wall on the Southern border, just doesn't compute.

Well, there are a lot of things more important than money and not being a total asshole to your fellow man is one of them. Anyone who has anything to do with Trump's idiotic wall can go **** themselves, I hope they never see a single dime from the state of CA or any of it's cities ever again.

Cycloptichorn
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Tue 10 Oct, 2017 10:54 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
The Corporate tax rate in CA doesn't need to be lowered. Corporations in CA have been making money hand over fist since 2009. Why would we lower their taxes? So they can have even more cash on hand to sit on?

I should point out that it is more than the corp tax rate in CA that is anti-capitalism, it is also the cost of regulations and additional tax burden placed on them. Unlike you, I don't think other people's money belongs to me, like you seem to think it does. Who's really the greedy one, the people who want to keep more of what is theirs, or you who want to take as much as you can from others?

Quote:
Any corporation who thinks that CA's taxes are too high should leave. Immediately. Go right on, nobody's stopping them from doing so. What's that? They're not sprinting to the exit? Why do you think that is?

If CA is so great, how come I continue to see new CA plates moving here to CO year after year after year? How about Oregon plates and IL plates? All states with heavy leftist leaning anti-capitalist, pro-tax and heavy regulation moving to my state? It could be the reason CA wants an open border, that way they can keep their population up and continue to tax business's and people to death or an over compensating social safety net.

Greed is bad when you lust after other people's money that you didn't earn, that is the greedy left. Always generous with other people's money.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Oct, 2017 10:59 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:
Unlike you, I don't think other people's money belongs to me, like you seem to think it does. Who's really the greedy one, the people who want to keep more of what is theirs, or you who want to take as much as you can from others?


You do realize that an effective taxation structure is essential to running a modern society, right? And not even just a modern one. Even Jesus himself commanded his followers to 'Render unto Caesar, that which is his.' Paying your taxes is a good thing to do and it helps support all of our citizens and our country.

Quote:
If CA is so great, how come I continue to see new CA plates moving here to CO year after year after year?


Simple: CA is an awesome place to live and housing has appreciated tremendously here. Lots of people who bought houses in the 80's and 90's for 100-300k have now sold those same houses for 1-1.5 million dollars. They're taking their profits and moving someplace with a lower cost of living.

This isn't an indicator that Corporations are leaving CA, which they're not. Our unemployment rate is lower... than Texas.

Cycloptichorn
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Tue 10 Oct, 2017 11:41 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
You do realize that an effective taxation structure is essential to running a modern society, right? And not even just a modern one. Even Jesus himself commanded his followers to 'Render unto Caesar, that which is his.' Paying your taxes is a good thing to do and it helps support all of our citizens and our country.

"Effective taxation" is the key word, not creating new taxes and fee's for every pet project leftist politicians think the people need and want. I'm not a Christian so your Jesus speech has no effect. I'm not against taxes, I'm against useless waste of taxes.

I'll give you an example of some of the stupid stuff going on in Denver. They are going to use tax payer funds to build "artist" housing so aspiring artists can create their art in an expensive city... they are also going to use taxpayer money to expand on a bike rental system in the city as well create more bike lanes... The population of CO is growing by about 1000 people a month and they want to waste money on a bike rental program and bike lanes instead of on improving their already shitty roads around the city. Bikes bring in no tax revenue since there is no taxes or fee's on them, so money brought in for the roads will be used for bicycles crap instead.

Quote:
Simple: CA is an awesome place to live and housing has appreciated tremendously here. Lots of people who bought houses in the 80's and 90's for 100-300k have now sold those same houses for 1-1.5 million dollars. They're taking their profits and moving someplace with a lower cost of living.

I lived in San Diego for almost a decade and couldn't afford to buy a house because it was so expensive, I move to CO and bought my first house within a few months. So no, CA isn't awesome unless you make at least 100k a year, it's too expensive, it's over crowed and people are rude, and now that the CA people are moving here in mass again, CO isn't far behind that expensive CA curve.

Quote:
This isn't an indicator that Corporations are leaving CA, which they're not.
[/quote]
http://www.kcra.com/article/two-dozen-companies-commit-to-leaving-california-1/6402348

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/nestle-joins-thousands-companies-leaving-california-anti-capitalist-lawmakers-activists/

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/blog/morning_call/2015/11/california-lost-9-000-business-hqs-and-expansions.html
If CA is great for business, why did Tesla build his new factory in Nevada?

Quote:
Our unemployment rate is lower... than Texas.

That is totally wishful thinking on your part. Texas is listed at 4.2% ranked #28 and CA is listed at 5.1% and ranked 44th. CO is ranked 2nd with 2.4%.
CA is ranked at the bottom 10.
https://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Tue 10 Oct, 2017 12:26 pm
@Baldimo,
Sorry, I was looking at data from April of this year, in which TX was in fact behind CA. You're correct that the August data shows TX with a lower UE rate; however, the two are so close as for the difference to be insignificant despite the supposedly stellar business environment.

Quote:
"Effective taxation" is the key word, not creating new taxes and fee's for every pet project leftist politicians think the people need and want. I'm not a Christian so your Jesus speech has no effect. I'm not against taxes, I'm against useless waste of taxes.


Haha, you're against it when Dems are in charge, I guess. Never saw too much railing on your part about wasting taxes when it's the GOP doing so on their pet projects (the military and corporate handouts).

Quote:
I'll give you an example of some of the stupid stuff going on in Denver. They are going to use tax payer funds to build "artist" housing so aspiring artists can create their art in an expensive city... they are also going to use taxpayer money to expand on a bike rental system in the city as well create more bike lanes... The population of CO is growing by about 1000 people a month and they want to waste money on a bike rental program and bike lanes instead of on improving their already shitty roads around the city. Bikes bring in no tax revenue since there is no taxes or fee's on them, so money brought in for the roads will be used for bicycles crap instead.


See? You only care about money. You don't give a **** about the fact that these things are improvements for the city, that increase the quality of life for all citizens in the city, and are good long-term uses of money.

You can't improve the roads enough to keep up with population growth. Can't widen the freeways enough to accomodate new cars. It's impossible to do so in the long run, which is why cities turn to public transportation and alternative transportation to ease congestion. The very things you complain about here will take cars off of the road. Will create less pollution in Denver. Will make less wear-and-tear on those same streets. But, all you can see is that tax dollars are being spent on something you don't use, and you're blind to the overall positive effects of it. Because it doesn't provide you in any way. Isn't that correct?

I on the other hand fully understand that my CA tax dollars go to pay for things that benefit me, and things that don't. That's totally appropriate and how our shared society works.

Quote:
I lived in San Diego for almost a decade and couldn't afford to buy a house because it was so expensive, I move to CO and bought my first house within a few months. So no, CA isn't awesome unless you make at least 100k a year, it's too expensive, it's over crowed and people are rude, and now that the CA people are moving here in mass again, CO isn't far behind that expensive CA curve.


Lots of us make far more than 100k a year, and yes, it is an awesome place. That's why the prices have risen so much: because of demand.

Also, to say that people in CA are ruder than CO is a ******* joke. I've been to Colorado several times. Bunch of rude people there who don't give a **** about anyone from outside the state.

As for the Corporations thing, anyone can Google a couple of articles to try and support their position. Oh look, here's one that supports MY position!

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-business-climate-20160102-story.html

California has - literally - millions of corporations. A few thousand leaving is a drop in the bucket, we don't even notice. I'm going to have to go ahead and say, so what? Any business who wants to leave, get the **** out. We'll replace you with younger entrepreneurs who don't put the endless pursuit of profits over every other factor. In one of your links, it was noted that Nestle left for another state. Good! They are an evil company and I'm happy to see them go, I wish they'd leave America completely.

Quote:
If CA is great for business, why did Tesla build his new factory in Nevada?


Hello! McFly?! Are you even paying attention? What does Nevada have more of than CA? Two things:

- Space to build factories, cheap, in the desert, close to major population centers
- Sunlight. It's a solar-powered factory that just got located in one of the sunniest areas of the country.

******* amazing, wow CA really sucks eh mate. Hmm, Tesla isn't relocating their business to NV, nor are any of their executives looking to move there, wonder why?? Maybe - just maybe - because California is in fact a great place to live and do business, and you're just a salty right-winger. Could be it.

Cycloptichorn
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 10 Oct, 2017 03:25 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Sorry, I was looking at data from April of this year, in which TX was in fact behind CA. You're correct that the August data shows TX with a lower UE rate; however, the two are so close as for the difference to be insignificant despite the supposedly stellar business environment.

I wouldn't call a full point to by insignificant unless you are saying that to make CA look better than it is. They are ranked 44th and Tx is ranked 28th, while my awesome state is ranked at #1!

Quote:
Haha, you're against it when Dems are in charge, I guess. Never saw too much railing on your part about wasting taxes when it's the GOP doing so on their pet projects (the military and corporate handouts).

I see the military as mandatory spending and I'm not against people or companies keeping more of what they make. Just how large of a check is the Federal govt cutting for these "Corporate Handouts"?

Quote:
See? You only care about money. You don't give a **** about the fact that these things are improvements for the city, that increase the quality of life for all citizens in the city, and are good long-term uses of money.

Building housing for poor artists is benefiting the entire city of Denver? What sort of return is the taxpayer going to see? Not a ******* dime! It's a waste of money that could be better spent on other projects around the city. Not spending millions so some "starving artist" can create their crap art on my dime... That is not a good long term use of money, fixing the crappy roads in Denver is a much better investment, plus they don't have to then dip into the "Pot School" funds to repair the roads. This is the problem with the leftists, they say they want taxes for one thing and then steal it all for unrelated pet projects.

Quote:
You can't improve the roads enough to keep up with population growth. Can't widen the freeways enough to accomodate new cars. It's impossible to do so in the long run, which is why cities turn to public transportation and alternative transportation to ease congestion. The very things you complain about here will take cars off of the road. Will create less pollution in Denver. Will make less wear-and-tear on those same streets. But, all you can see is that tax dollars are being spent on something you don't use, and you're blind to the overall positive effects of it. Because it doesn't provide you in any way. Isn't that correct?

See the liberal agenda spread bare for all to see. Take cars off the roads...

Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 08:18 am
@Baldimo,
Yes, cars off the roads! This isn't a liberal thing or a conservative one. It saves money for everyone, creates less pollution, creates less congestion on the roads, causes less wear-and-tear. It's a money-saver, as well as promoting a healthy lifestyle.

But - you're against it, because you won't use it and **** anything that doesn't help you personally, right? Damn. You couldn't be more stereotypical if you tried.

As for corporate welfare, there's just south of $100 billion worth in our tax code. And that's according to CATO. Liberal groups will tell ya it's more like double that. But yeah let's sit around railing about bike lanes like they're the ******* problem

Cycloptichorn
Senter
 
  3  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 08:35 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:
They choose to attack companies who do not tow their liberal progressive line

Where do they tow it to? You don't know English grammar but you want us to believe you know politics and economics??
Senter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 08:40 am
@Baldimo,
OH!!!! I get it now!!!!
In your playbook, if we don't grant greedy businesses and rich elite every opportunity, every tax break, every chance to rake in more at less and less cost, we're "anti-capitalist"!!!

Where does it end with you people? It doesn't. Right?
0 Replies
 
Senter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 08:44 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:
If CA is so great, how come I continue to see new CA plates moving here to CO year after year after year?

Maybe it has something to do with drought and wildfires?


Quote:
How about Oregon plates and IL plates?

Not so much wildfire threat here, at least not until this year.


Quote:
All states with heavy leftist leaning anti-capitalist, pro-tax and heavy regulation moving to my state?

Oregon is a pretty leftist state, thankfully. But your thinking is now exposed as partisan to the point of abandoning reason.
0 Replies
 
Senter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 08:45 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:
Greed is bad when you lust after other people's money that you didn't earn

Like that of the greedy rich elite, for example. Capitalism legalizes theft.
0 Replies
 
Senter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 08:54 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:
I see the military as mandatory spending and I'm not against people or companies keeping more of what they make.

You're informed regarding CA's problems and Denver's bad choices. Are you equally aware of how much Trump's tax plan would hand the rich vs. how much it would cost the rest of us to hand all that over to the rich? Or is this a one-way street for you?
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 11:48 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Yes, cars off the roads! This isn't a liberal thing or a conservative one. It saves money for everyone, creates less pollution, creates less congestion on the roads, causes less wear-and-tear. It's a money-saver, as well as promoting a healthy lifestyle.

Yes it is a liberal thing! It's an anti-oil thing and an anti-choice thing, which all add up to a liberal thing. If you live directly in Denver, which a majority of the people who work there do not, biking to work isn't feasible and trying to force such social engineering is counter productive. You also forget that Denver is a place that biking to work is a seasonal proposal due to cold weather and snow. I know then those people should be using public transit... if you don't mind a 2-3 hour travel time to work.

Quote:
But - you're against it, because you won't use it and **** anything that doesn't help you personally, right? Damn. You couldn't be more stereotypical if you tried.

If you consider me voting in my best interests being stereotypical then yes. I'm against it because it doesn't help the majority of those who live in and around the Denver Metro area. Millions of dollars for artists housing? How is that going to help a majority of people who live here? How are bike rental outfits run by the city going to benefit a majority of the population who live an average 20 minute car ride outside of Denver?

Quote:
As for corporate welfare, there's just south of $100 billion worth in our tax code. And that's according to CATO. Liberal groups will tell ya it's more like double that.

I'm all for getting rid of some of the "loopholes" for business but only if pared by actual tax rate decreases.

Quote:
But yeah let's sit around railing about bike lanes like they're the ******* problem.

So which are we going to address, State or Federal tax code and spending? You are bitching about Corp welfare which generally takes place at the federal level and I'm concerned with local spending on bike lanes that are useless to the majority of taxpayers here in the Denver Metro area. When they go after tax money that was never intended for the use they want, yes I have a problem with it. The money collected from the Pot tax was only suppose to be used for School Construction projects and leftover taxes would be paid back to the taxpayers. The Dems saw all that money coming in and got greedy, now they have more projects that can't be done without taking that tax money. In the military we called that "Mission Creep" and Dems with tax money are indeed creeps.

 

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