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Socialism and California

 
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 11:58 am
@Senter,
Quote:
Where do they tow it to? You don't know English grammar but you want us to believe you know politics and economics??

If the best you can do is pick at the wrong word, then you really have nothing to say.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 11:58 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:
Yes it is a liberal thing! It's an anti-oil thing and an anti-choice thing, which all add up to a liberal thing. If you live directly in Denver, which a majority of the people who work there do not, biking to work isn't feasible and trying to force such social engineering is counter productive. You also forget that Denver is a place that biking to work is a seasonal proposal due to cold weather and snow. I know then those people should be using public transit... if you don't mind a 2-3 hour travel time to work.


I spent a decade biking 5 miles to work, each way. So it's bullshit to say that it's not an option for dozens if not hundreds of thousands of people in Denver. Obviously it won't work for everyone, but for a lot of people - it will. I'll also point out that if you don't like it, vote in new representation who will spend money on things you'd prefer. Oh, what's that? You can't do so because a majority of your fellow citizens disagree with you? Better keep heading east to Iowa or something.

Quote:
I'm all for getting rid of some of the "loopholes" for business but only if pared by actual tax rate decreases.


Nope. If you truly gave a ****, you'd be for removing those loopholes without asking for anything in return. I mean, if you agree they are a problem, why should anything be necessary in return to fix the problem?

As for the artist housing thing, I'm not really a huge fan of that but I do think that there is a vested interest in creating works of public art for everyone to enjoy. Lemme put it this way, 75 years from now, people will still be enjoying and experiencing the artwork created on behalf of the city and it does enrich people's lives. Whereas, whatever it is that YOU do, nobody will remember or give two fucks. Isn't that right? From that angle, maybe they're worth MORE to society than you ever will be.

Cycloptichorn
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 11:58 am
@Baldimo,
Outstanding!
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 12:18 pm
Do Lower Taxes Create Jobs? Let’s Look at the States

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2012/05/03/do-lower-taxes-create-jobs-lets-look-at-the-states
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 01:44 pm
@Senter,
I'll try and address your separate posts:

Quote:
OH!!!! I get it now!!!!
In your playbook, if we don't grant greedy businesses and rich elite every opportunity, every tax break, every chance to rake in more at less and less cost, we're "anti-capitalist"!!!

Greedy businesses? I'm not worried about the big corporations, I worried about the middle to small size companies who don't have the huge amount of capital to keep up with extreme left-wing regulations. Why is it greed to keep more of what you make but not greed to take what you didn't make?

Quote:
Where does it end with you people? It doesn't. Right?

It ends when the US has a truly senseable tax policy that isn't a naked grab by the leftists in the US to supply every whim they imagine society needs.

Quote:
Maybe it has something to do with drought and wildfires?

Yeah, I'm sure that's what it is... drought and wildfires...

Quote:
Oregon is a pretty leftist state, thankfully. But your thinking is now exposed as partisan to the point of abandoning reason.

Such as? I've never denied being partisan but a vast majority of those here on A2K are partisan one way or the other, you haven't exposed anything.

Quote:
Like that of the greedy rich elite, for example. Capitalism legalizes theft.

Selling a product or service is theft? Last I checked, that was considered commerce and that is the point of starting a business. You don't want Socialism, you want Communism.

Quote:
You're informed regarding CA's problems and Denver's bad choices. Are you equally aware of how much Trump's tax plan would hand the rich vs. how much it would cost the rest of us to hand all that over to the rich? Or is this a one-way street for you?

I usually ignore any comments on tax plans when someone's first comment deals with the rich.
From what I have seen of his proposal, it looks to reduce the number of tax brackets down to 3 and allows for the lower income people/families to not pay any income taxes on the first $37k for single people and $75k for married people, as the initial proposal goes, Congress still has to actually write the new tax code.

Hand what over to the rich, more of their own money? Which one way street are talking about? Do you not think you would get a tax break or are you afraid you will have to pay more in taxes? Me, I would end up paying less taxes as I make under 100K a year but over the $75k limit in the original proposal for a married person. I'll get the mortgage dedication since I'm a home owner against since Aug.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 02:05 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
I spent a decade biking 5 miles to work, each way. So it's bullshit to say that it's not an option for dozens if not hundreds of thousands of people in Denver. Obviously it won't work for everyone, but for a lot of people - it will. I'll also point out that if you don't like it, vote in new representation who will spend money on things you'd prefer. Oh, what's that? You can't do so because a majority of your fellow citizens disagree with you? Better keep heading east to Iowa or something.

Wow, 5 miles. Did you miss the part where I said a majority of the people who live around Denver have a 20 minute car ride to the city? That exceeds your 5 mile mark. My current commute for work takes me 45 minutes by car and that is going to be the average soon with the way housing prices are going up. You should check rents and house prices in the Denver market before you say something stupid.
https://www.apartments.com/denver-co/1-bedrooms-1-bathrooms-over-500/?bb=lzipmwpggMj7qwxme

Quote:
Nope. If you truly gave a ****, you'd be for removing those loopholes without asking for anything in return. I mean, if you agree they are a problem, why should anything be necessary in return to fix the problem?

I don't believe in soaking a business for everything they are worth just because YOU think society is has a right to the companies profits. Give you leftists an inch and you take a mile.

Quote:
As for the artist housing thing, I'm not really a huge fan of that but I do think that there is a vested interest in creating works of public art for everyone to enjoy.

Works of public art are one thing, but this isn't doing that, this is building them new and converted housing so they can create their art. So based on that and your thoughts, we should pay for their housing and then pay them for their art as well? So these artists do nothing but live for free and create things? Yeah, total waste of taxpayer monies. Dildos hanging from the ceiling of a public library isn't really "public" art, it's dildo's hanging from the ceiling.

Quote:
Lemme put it this way, 75 years from now, people will still be enjoying and experiencing the artwork created on behalf of the city and it does enrich people's lives.

No it won't, the city of Denver has a 5 year limit on public art, that way to can swap it out and keep it fresh. Well except for that stupid blue Bull with the red eyes outside of the Denver airport, it got an extension for another 5 years.

Quote:
Whereas, whatever it is that YOU do, nobody will remember or give two fucks. Isn't that right? From that angle, maybe they're worth MORE to society than you ever will be.

Such petty words from such a petty person.

I'm not a narcissist, so I could careless if people remember who I an in 75 years. It has never been my point in life to be famous or be remembered, except by my family because in the long run they are the only one's who matter. I'm a tech support dude for a digital storage company not really a "rock star" position in life. I'm very good at what I do and my customers appreciate me when I save their asses from company wide data loss.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 02:07 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
Hand what over to the rich, more of their own money? Which one way street are talking about? Do you not think you would get a tax break or are you afraid you will have to pay more in taxes? Me, I would end up paying less taxes as I make under 100K a year but over the $75k limit in the original proposal for a married person. I'll get the mortgage dedication since I'm a home owner against since Aug.


No, you won't. You can't take an expanded Standard Deduction and itemize to get the mortgage interest deduction simultaneously. You can also forget about itemizing and getting a break on your State sales and income taxes, as the currently announced plan removes the ability for you to deduct those.

People in your (reported) income range will almost certainly see a tax INCREASE from the plan Trump is pushing. However, the extremely wealthy (like, say, Trump, Mnuchin, Cohn, and the rest of his damn cabinet) would see HUGE decreases due to the proposed removal of the Estate tax and the AMT, not to mention lowering the Corporate tax rate and top-line marginal tax rate.

So while you're busy paying more, or if you're lucky, slightly less, the very wealthy pay... tremendously less. And, the current proposed tax plan adds a LOT to our already 700 Billion a year deficit. And you're cool with this? You think this is a plan that was developed with the average person in this country in mind?

You guys need to do some more research, you talk about things but you don't actually think about them in depth. Trump preys on people who are like that, because it all 'sounds good' until you actually read the details.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 02:16 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Quote:
I spent a decade biking 5 miles to work, each way. So it's bullshit to say that it's not an option for dozens if not hundreds of thousands of people in Denver. Obviously it won't work for everyone, but for a lot of people - it will. I'll also point out that if you don't like it, vote in new representation who will spend money on things you'd prefer. Oh, what's that? You can't do so because a majority of your fellow citizens disagree with you? Better keep heading east to Iowa or something.

Wow, 5 miles. Did you miss the part where I said a majority of the people who live around Denver have a 20 minute car ride to the city? That exceeds your 5 mile mark. My current commute for work takes me 45 minutes by car and that is going to be the average soon with the way housing prices are going up. You should check rents and house prices in the Denver market before you say something stupid.


https://www.apartments.com/denver-co/1-bedrooms-1-bathrooms-over-500/?bb=lzipmwpggMj7qwxme


The Denver metro area is home to millions of people. Hundreds of thousands of those people live within 5 miles of where they work. It's incredibly stupid to say that these people can't walk or bike to where they are going - they can. Just because YOU bought a house in the suburbs, doesn't mean everyone else did.

And, forget about work - what about all the other stuff people go do? There's a lot of things close to people's homes that can be biked to, it's foolish to focus only on commuting. Maybe you should try riding a bike sometime before slamming it, who knows, you might like it.

As for housing prices, I live in the most expensive housing market in the country. By a lot. So yeah I'm not too impressed by Denver's prices. **** is downright affordable compared to where I'm at, so stop complaining.

Quote:
Quote:
Nope. If you truly gave a ****, you'd be for removing those loopholes without asking for anything in return. I mean, if you agree they are a problem, why should anything be necessary in return to fix the problem?

I don't believe in soaking a business for everything they are worth just because YOU think society is has a right to the companies profits. Give you leftists an inch and you take a mile.


The number I quoted originally was from the CATO institute, and it was what they truly considered to be unnecessary 'corporate welfare.' As in, tax breaks that were being offered to corporations to influence their behavior in some way or help them out, but they were very likely to have made those same decisions without a tax break.

If you think those guys are 'leftists,' I dunno what to tell ya. They are anything but. Most of these items are special exemptions that were carved out for specific industries after heavy lobbying of Congress, IE, classic corruption. I guess you're cool with that tho

Quote:
Quote:
As for the artist housing thing, I'm not really a huge fan of that but I do think that there is a vested interest in creating works of public art for everyone to enjoy.

Works of public art are one thing, but this isn't doing that, this is building them new and converted housing so they can create their art. So based on that and your thoughts, we should pay for their housing and then pay them for their art as well? So these artists do nothing but live for free and create things? Yeah, total waste of taxpayer monies. Dildos hanging from the ceiling of a public library isn't really "public" art, it's dildo's hanging from the ceiling.

Quote:
Lemme put it this way, 75 years from now, people will still be enjoying and experiencing the artwork created on behalf of the city and it does enrich people's lives.

No it won't, the city of Denver has a 5 year limit on public art, that way to can swap it out and keep it fresh. Well except for that stupid blue Bull with the red eyes outside of the Denver airport, it got an extension for another 5 years.

Quote:
Whereas, whatever it is that YOU do, nobody will remember or give two fucks. Isn't that right? From that angle, maybe they're worth MORE to society than you ever will be.

Such petty words from such a petty person.

I'm not a narcissist, so I could careless if people remember who I an in 75 years. It has never been my point in life to be famous or be remembered, except by my family because in the long run they are the only one's who matter. I'm a tech support dude for a digital storage company not really a "rock star" position in life. I'm very good at what I do and my customers appreciate me when I save their asses from company wide data loss.
[/quote]

I already told you I'm not big on the public housing bit, so you won't see me bend over backward to defend it. I would have to ask, what's the problem that it's trying to solve? If that can't be clearly stated, it's a waste of money. I'm not for spending money on whatever, just because I'm a liberal guy. I'm for spending money on things that matter, and yes, works of public art add value to our society.

I couldn't find anything online about a 5-year limit on public art... but I highly doubt those pieces of art are then destroyed once removed. They still go on enriching our society and species elsewhere.

You can describe me as Petty if you like, it doesn't bother me. Whatever you need to say about me to feel good about yourself and your argument here, go right ahead.

Cycloptichorn
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 03:14 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
The Denver metro area is home to millions of people. Hundreds of thousands of those people live within 5 miles of where they work. It's incredibly stupid to say that these people can't walk or bike to where they are going - they can.

There is about 2.8 million people in the greater Denver metro area and not all of them actually work in Denver. Some of the best tech jobs in CO are not even in Denver, they are along the Hwy 36 corridor which spans from North of Denver all the way to Boulder.
You seem to think I'm against bikes being used in the city, which I'm not, people can ride all they want to, the problem is taking millions of dollars in taxpayer money and using it on things that won't benefit the majority of people who live in the Denver area.

Quote:
Just because YOU bought a house in the suburbs, doesn't mean everyone else did.

Unless you own an apartment in Denver, then yes, you are indeed buying a house in the burbs because there is no where to build new houses, well affordable houses in Denver. You should really check out that link I sent.

Quote:
And, forget about work - what about all the other stuff people go do? There's a lot of things close to people's homes that can be biked to, it's foolish to focus only on commuting. Maybe you should try riding a bike sometime before slamming it, who knows, you might like it.

You really do have no idea what it is like to live in CO. I'm not and haven't slammed bikes, I've slammed the foolish politicians who want to spend a lot of money that could be better used.

Quote:
As for housing prices, I live in the most expensive housing market in the country. By a lot. So yeah I'm not too impressed by Denver's prices. **** is downright affordable compared to where I'm at, so stop complaining.

Oh, I'm sorry because housing prices are more expensive in CA I shouldn't complain about housing prices here, I should just count my lucky stars? You are a moron and worse your are an elitist moron.

Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2017 03:35 pm
@Baldimo,
Haha, not 'elitist' but in fact 'elite.' You were pretty close though.

I may be a moron, but I'm one that knows more than you do about any political or economic topic there is. I am quite confident of that. And it's not because I'm inherently smarter, but because I do a ton of research and actually try to read about things before spouting off about them.

I guess you're just not going to respond to the CATO bit or the fact that you don't know the first thing about Trump's proposed tax plan. That's too bad, because I really wanted to see you try to square those circles, it would have been fun to watch.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Senter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2017 09:47 pm
@Baldimo,
You're saying Trump's tax plan eliminates income taxes for a "married filing jointly" tax return with taxable income of less than $75k???? And you believe it?? LOL!!!!!

Is it "their own money? Do you realize that productivity and incomes of the top 1% went way, way up in the last 15 years but workers' real wages have been flat for 30 years? Didn't those workers participate in producing that increased productivity and increased income of the top 1%? The top 1% didn't share it. If both CEO and worker participated in increasing productivity, shouldn't both benefit from the increase?

And actually, if you understand growth of businesses under capitalism, you would know that the workers were responsible for most of that income increase and most of the value of the company. But you don't understand that.
0 Replies
 
 

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