The NEXT coming Oz election thread!

ECONOMIST
I always chuckle when I hear of someone who is an economist. It probably stems from the days when opposing political parties trotted out their expert economists to explain the budget. You would see two people with totally opposing views both claiming to be right. Thats when I decided that anyone can be an economist, just have a stab at it, you are bound to get something right.
Oh, and basic economics ....
Remember bonzai telling us how good the workers had it ... then someone asked him the price of a loaf of bread or a carton of milk ... he never had the foggiest idea !!!! never had a clue .. couldn't even hazard a guess ...

I think I will go sit back in my corner.
ps bonzai=little bush

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p61/noworries53/dunce.jpg

0 Replies

Remember this, from yesterday?:

msolga wrote:

Jones 'incited' Cronulla violence on air
Kenneth Nguyen
April 11, 2007/the AGE

SYDNEY broadcaster Alan Jones' comments before the 2005 Cronulla riots were likely to have encouraged brutality and vilified people of Lebanese and Middle Eastern background, Australia's broadcasting regulator says.

In a damning report, the Australian Communications and Media Authority criticised Jones' suggestion that "biker gangs be present at Cronulla railway station when these Lebanese thugs arrive" and his statement that "we don't have Anglo-Saxon kids out there raping women in western Sydney". Both comments were made in the week before the riots on December 11, 2005.

Throughout the week, Jones had read on air letters and emails from listeners that claimed that Middle Eastern visitors to Cronulla were dangerous.

One letter read by Jones said: "These Middle Eastern people must be treated with a big stick; it's the only thing they fear, they don't fear fines and they laugh at the courts."

The authority yesterday found that Jones' employer, radio station 2GB, had breached the Commercial Radio Codes of Practice by broadcasting material likely to encourage brutality.

"The suggestion to invite bikers gangs to intimidate Lebanese rail passengers was made in the context of other comments which gave the impression that people of Lebanese background or people of Middle Eastern background were forming gangs intent on causing harm to 'Australians', had no respect for the law and that existing law enforcement agencies were powerless," the authority said. ... <cont>
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/04/10/1175971098057.html

.....Well, read on. Alan Jones (apparently!) has friends & apologists in high places! Shocked

:

Guilty Jones attacks media watchdog
Michael Bodey and Patricia Karvelas
April 12, 2007

JOHN Howard described Alan Jones as an "outstanding broadcaster" and Kevin Rudd insisted he would be happy to appear on his show as the Sydney radio host took to the airwaves yesterday to savage the media watchdog that has found him guilty of inciting violence during the Cronulla race riots.

As the Prime Minister and Opposition Leader defended Jones, the broadcaster said the media authority's chairman had sought personal references from him in the past.

John Singleton, majority shareholder of Macquarie Radio Network, proprietor of 2GB, backed Jones's claim. He confirmed he had a "personal friendship" with the Australian Communication and Media Authority chairman, Chris Chapman, "off the field".

"I don't want to get personal with Chris, I like Chris but he has called on Alan and me for many favours over the years and we've both been forthcoming. So I'm personally disappointed, but maybe he had no legal alternative," Mr Singleton said.

In handing down its finding, the ACMA found that Jones had broadcast material likely to encourage violence and vilify people of Lebanese background before the Cronulla riots in December 2005.

..................

.... Mr Howard came to Jones's aid. "I don't think he's a person who encourages prejudice in the Australian community, not for one moment, but he is a person who articulates what a lot of people think," he said.

Mr Rudd also backed Jones, saying nothing in the ACMA's inquiry had caused him to reconsider appearing on Jones's show.

"In terms of the future appearances (on) Alan Jones's program, there's nothing I've read at this stage that would cause me not to go on," he said.

........

In his defence to the ACMA, 2GB argued that the majority of Jones's listeners were aged over 55 and unlikely to be incited.

.........

The broadcaster replayed several excerpts from December 2005 in which he urged tolerance and calm, and contended complaints to ACMA were only filed after transcripts were replayed on the ABC.

He then read out the names of the ACMA secretariat - Mr Chapman, Lynne Maddock, Chris Cheah, professor Gerard Anderson, Malcolm Long, Johanna Plante and Rod Shogren - and questioned their knowledge of the radio broadcasting industry: "These people simply don't pass muster."

...................

Communications Minister Helen Coonan called on the ACMA and the radio industry to accelerate its review of the commercial radio codes of practice, due for review in September.

"If some parts of the industry have concerns about the code, then they should by all means take steps to have it reviewed," Senator Coonan said.

Macquarie Radio is believed to be exploring legal avenues to clear Jones's name. .... <cont>

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21542576-2702,00.html

0 Replies

Can you believe that?
Alan Jones has the support of John Howard AND Kevin Rudd! Neither, apparently seems to think that Jones has done anything particularly wrong. Communications Minister, Helen Coonan, also responded in a wishy-washy non-commital manner.
And Jones gets back on air & reads out the names of the ACMA secretariat & denigrates them. No comment from our "leaders".

I still can't believe how they've responded. Shocked

0 Replies

http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5445701,00.jpg

0 Replies

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/04/12/1204_cartoon_gallery__470x308.jpg

0 Replies

Gobsmacked! Shocked

:

Coonan gives her support to Jones
Matthew Ricketson and Russell Skelton
April 13, 2007/the AGE

COMMUNICATIONS Minister Helen Coonan has refused to support the nation's media regulator in its ruling against broadcaster Alan Jones.

Asked by The Age to respond to the Australian Communications and Media Authority finding that the Sydney broadcaster had encouraged violence and vilification of Australians of Lebanese and other Middle Eastern backgrounds, Senator Coonan issued a statement backing Jones. She also hinted that the Government was prepared to review the broadcasting rules which Jones had been found to have breached.

Her statement said: "Alan Jones has made an indelible mark on broadcasting during his long and outstanding career and I encourage the industry to address any concerns that they might have with the current code with a review to ensure it best reflects community standards." ... <cont>

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/coonan-gives-her-support-to-jones/2007/04/12/1175971264559.html

0 Replies

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2007/04/12/wbTOONleunig_gallery__470x341,0.jpg

0 Replies

http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5447008,00.jpg

0 Replies

One rule for muftis, another for shock jocks
Elisabeth Lopez
April 13, 2007/the AGE

http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/one-rule-for-muftis-another-for-shock-jocks/2007/04/12/1175971259416.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

0 Replies

OK, OK .... I can see that there's not much interest in this story. The silence is deafening. ( Surprised

) So I won't keep at it for much longer. But just a couple more cartoonists' responses before I leave it .... :

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/04/13/1404_cartoon_gallery__470x311,0.jpg

0 Replies

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2007/04/13/svCARTOON_gallery__470x320.jpg

0 Replies

Quote:

Remember bonzai telling us how good the workers had it ... then someone asked him the price of a loaf of bread or a carton of milk ... he never had the foggiest idea !!!! never had a clue .. couldn't even hazard a guess ...

It was a Loarie Oaks / John Hewson interview, and Hewson was asked what the price of a cake would be under the GST.

As for the Cronulla Race Riots, they existed, they were based on Race, but was it a bad thing?

My personal view, after reading views of many people from Cronulla, and having a good friend who has lived in Cronulla for many years, is that the riots had little to do with the traditional understanding of racism. Rather, the riots were a culmination of many years of frustration.

Apparently it was (not sure if it still is - haven't asked) a common occurence for lebanese yobo's to ride through cronulla calling insults to passersby, yelling suggestive comments to women - in a way that makes them out to be sluts, wander through town in gangs, intimidate the locals etc etc etc. Add to that the 2 sets of gang rapes in Sydney that women had experienced at the hands of lebanese gangs over the last 5 years (and probably more individual ones that never made the news)...and then a lifeguard was beaten by lebanese thugs....there's a common identity in these occurences, and it's identity belonged to a minority race. The law wasn't doing much about it (except for the rapes), and so Cronulla locals have had to put up with ongoing abuse and fear for years - and the rest of Australia apparently expects them to cop it on the chin?

There are without doubt many nice lebanese people, but a decent percentage cause enough fear and angst in the general population that such things (the riot) will be a natural result of human frustration and emotion. Instead of blaming australians and calling them racist, a long hard look at the causes is needed.

0 Replies

Thing is, vikorr, if you'd spoken to some Lebanese about the "causes" of the riot you would most likely have received an entirely different story.
I've seen enough of these types of volatile situations in schools & in local communities (The "Serbs vs the Croats" in the early 90s, for example ... Shocked

) to know that there are hateful, destructive & crazy folk on both sides.

The problem is, that what turned out to be a very explosive situation was not dealt with properly by local authorities or the police earlier on. (I agree with you on that.)

My gripe is with Alan Jones & his role & what appeared to be an endorsement of one group in the conflict. That made the situation far worse & encouraged yobbos who had nothing to do with the initial problem to become involved. I think it is quite correct that he should be held accountable for his actions over this. The Australian Communications & Media Authority is the appropriate body to investigate complaints about his broadcasts, however, Alan Jones has disagreed with the authority's findings & has proceeded to vilify the authority on air since its findings were announced! Only to receive endorsement from the prime minister, the minister for communications & the opposition leader!

Alan Jones appears to be a law unto himself. He can broadcast whatever he chooses with impunity, apparently .... Can you imagine the furore if an ABC commentator had broadcast any of the things Jones said prior to the riot? They'd be off air, probably sacked in a minute! And quite rightly so. Why should it be any different on commercial radio & when it's Alan Jones?

That is what my beef is here, vikorr. It is not about supporting either side in the riot that occurred. It is entirely about acceptable standards & accountability in broadcasting in this country. I'm extremely disappointed that our government has chosen to undermine the standing of the The Australian Communications & Media Authority in this instance (this, after the witch-hunts, undermining & board-stacking the ABC has had to endure! Rolling Eyes

). And I'm appalled by Kevin Rudd's endorsement of Alan Jones, too. (I think he's seriously damaged his credibility with many ALP supporters on this one.)

0 Replies

Quote:

My gripe is with Alan Jones & his role & what appeared to be an endorsement of one group in the conflict.

Oh, I've no doubt that Jones should have been hauled over the coals for his comments, and it wouldn't have upset me if he'd lost his broadcasting ability because of it - I don't personally have much time for Alan Jones.

I suppose my comments was more out of irritation over how it was made out by the popular media to be caused by white Australia's underlying racism (I'm black Australian by the way)...which to me is a convenient label that ignores legitimate underlying causes.

That said, I'm not saying either that all lebanese deserve to be targetted - this is obviously not the case. And I am also lead to believe that the same lebanese yobbo's who cause fear in Cronulla, also cause fear in their own communities.

A complex issue made into an apparently simple label of inherent racism -and inherent racism of white Australians? Such labels ignore the years of ongoing victimisation suffered by the local residents of Cronulla.

PS Racism in Australian is a rather ridiculous issue to me. Making generalised comments when talking about a group is a fact of life - it's almost impossible to talk about a problem belonging to a group without generalising...so people in power don't talk about such minority group problems, and nothing gets done. Further, the most virulent racism that I've personally seen, has virtually always been from minority groups towards mainstream white Australians. Some sense in the causes of cultural groups difficulties with certain other cultural groups would go a long way towards allowing governments to find a solution. The label of racism seems to actually prevent solutions from being publicly discussed, debated, and found.

0 Replies

vikorr wrote:

Making generalised comments when talking about a group is a fact of life - it's almost impossible to talk about a problem belonging to a group without generalising...so people in power don't talk about such minority group problems, and nothing gets done.The label of racism seems to actually prevent solutions from being publicly discussed, debated, and found.

I find people would rather avoid discussing a problem because they might be thought a racist by mentioning a specific group. Nobody wants to wear the "racist tag", so they keep their mouths shut. I don't take offense if people refer to my race in a general way.
Oh, my rambling has nothing to do with AJ's comments, but vikorr has made a very good point.

0 Replies

vikorr wrote:

Racism in Australian is a rather ridiculous issue to me. Making generalised comments when talking about a group is a fact of life - it's almost impossible to talk about a problem belonging to a group without generalising...so people in power don't talk about such minority group problems, and nothing gets done.

But what if your assessment of the "problem belonging to a group" is flawed or wrong in the first place? Sigh.
I have no problem at all with such discussions taking place. Especially when the issue is an important one in the Oz community. Better to have the dialogue than cover up the problem & have it simmering under the surface, only to explode later. It's the context and the tone of the discussion that most matters to me. I mean, taking the Cronulla example, I object to the issue being discussed within a negative "them vs us" context, with shock jocks like Jones "leading" the debate (& taking sides). That made any possible rational discussion impossible (for both sides) & made the situation worse than it was before he aired the issue.

0 Replies

I'm not cutting this discussion short. Please continue if you want. I'm interested.

But just wanted to post this article from the Sydney Morning Herald Interesting, hey?
Surprised, anyone? :wink: :

Revealed: how AWAs strip work rights
Mark Davis Political Correspondent
April 17, 2007/SMH

SECRET figures reveal that 45 per cent of Australian workplace agreements have stripped away all of the award conditions that the Federal Government promised would be "protected by law" under Work Choices.

The statistics, which the Government has been refusing to release for months, also show a third of the individual employment contracts lodged during the first six months of Work Choices provided no wage rises during the life of the agreements.

They show staff of the Office of the Employment Advocate believed 27.8 per cent of the agreements they examined might have broken the law by undercutting one of the legislated minimum employment entitlements.

Conditions were stripped from the vast majority of the agreements examined, and these included shift loadings (removed in 76 per cent of the agreements), annual leave loading (59 per cent), incentive payments and bonuses (70 per cent), and declared public holidays (22.5 per cent).

However, a sub-sample of 3972 agreements lodged between June and September shows 78 per cent contained wage rates that were more generous than the relevant minimum award pay rate, while 16 per cent had wage rates equal to the award minimum.

The Herald has been sent spreadsheets containing tens of thousands of items of statistical detail collected by the office's staff from a sample of 5250 Australian workplace agreements lodged with the agency between April and September last year.

The Government has refused to publish the information after preliminary figures made public last May from a smaller sample of 250 agreements presented an unflattering picture of the impact of Work Choices on employees.

AWAs are individual employment agreements that override industrial awards. They are one of the most contentious elements of the workplace relations changes. Labor says employers use them to pressure workers into giving up basic entitlements.

The Government has insisted that the agreements provide flexibility to tailor employment arrangements to workplace needs, and that employees can secure significant pay rises under the deals. But the Government has rejected calls to make these statistics public.

A source, who did not want to be named, said the figures had been compiled from 250 agreements sampled in May and 1000 sampled each month from June to October. The agency's staff compared them to the five legislated minimum employment conditions and the 11 "protected award conditions" under Work Choices.

AWAs are not allowed to undercut the minimum conditions: the minimum award wage, annual leave, personal leave, compassionate leave and parental leave. But they are allowed to remove or change the 11 protected conditions if there is "express" agreement between the employer and the employee.

The agency's staff identified 1457 agreements - or 27.8 per cent of the 5250 - as containing provisions that might not comply with the Workplace Relations Act's pay and conditions standard. A further 250 contained possible breaches of the standard.

The data do not measure whether pay rises included in the agreements were generous enough to compensate for the entitlements that were excluded.

A spokesman for the Minister for Workplace Relations, Joe Hockey, said last night that it was a narrow analysis that did not include added provisions and rewards such as flexible hours, access to bonus pools and other benefits. "This kind of analysis does not compare apples with apples," the spokesman said.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/revealed-how-awas-strip-work-rights/2007/04/16/1176696757585.html

0 Replies

Labor still has strong lead in polls
April 16, 2007/SMH

Australian voters appeared to have ignored the recent bad press suffered by federal Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd, with Labor maintaining its strong lead over the coalition in the polls.

A Newspoll for a national newspaper shows Labor leading the coalition by 59 per cent to 41 per cent on a two-party preferred basis.

That's up two percentage points for Labor, and down two points for the coalition compared with a March 30-April 1 Newspoll.

On the preferred prime minister measure, Mr Rudd stayed steady at 48 per cent while Prime Minister John Howard slipped two percentage points to 36 per cent.

Labor gained the two percentage points despite Mr Rudd taking a battering in the media over his role in the Seven Network's Sunrise program's plan to broadcast a fake Anzac Day service from Vietnam.

Mr Rudd has quit his spot on the popular program, credited with raising his profile, but denied it was because of the Anzac Day fiasco.

He has also been challenged over his childhood recollections about how his family was evicted from their home after the death of his father, with a family member revealing they had no knowledge of the eviction.

AAP

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/labor-still-has-strong-lead-in-polls/2007/04/17/1176696769638.html

0 Replies

Sunrise comments from the cartoonists.:

http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5450498,00.jpg

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,5450619,00.jpg

0 Replies

...... as I said earlier, vikorr & bungie, my intention was not to cut the discussion on racism short ..... I just wanted to post these latest developments while they are still fresh.

Please do continue where you/we left off if you still have more you'd like to say on the subject. I must say it's a pleasure to be able to discuss issues more, rather than me just posting stuff so much of the time. Great! This is taking some getting used to! :wink:

0 Replies

The NEXT coming Oz election thread!

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know