They do if they live in the same places, Steissd. All the schools in the region I work in - the south of my city - have a lot of Aboriginal children - with a special education department unit to try to assist with things like keeping Aboriginal kids in school. I assume the other regions are the same.
If they are living in communities way outback, then they are educated where they live. School retention is a terrible problem - one isolated community built a swimming pool and, coincidentally, almost solved the problem of getting their kids to school - "no school, no swim."
Steissd, you seem absolutely determined to believe that there is segregation in Australia. I have been tempted to treat you to some Australian humour, which, if you are planning on emigrating here, you had better start getting used to - but I have restrained myself.
There is racism - in a lot of pubs you could probably hear the same sort of stuff that you have said - "Why were they stone-age" - "Us coming here was the best thing that ever happened to them" and so on. Our current government has set the process of reconciliation between white and black Australians back. There is huge inequality, despite lots of government spending to try to rectify it. There are massive health problems, despite many programs to try to address it. There is a terrible problem with keeping Aboriginal kids in school and getting them into higher education, despite funds being thrown at it. The Aboriginal people were almost destroyed by invasion and its sequelae - that they have survived and are growing in numbers and strength is a tribute to their courage and resilience.
With the best will in the world - and that is not present, anyway, with the current Federal Government - but they are not actually monsters - it is a huge struggle to overcome tthe effects of 200 years of appalling treatment - nobody really knows how to do it -Aboriginal communities and pressure groups are struggling with it, too - building on successes - there is ignorance and a lot of racism - there is a lot of anger and self-defeating stuff from the Aboriginal side, too - as is understandable
However, there is no policy of segregation or attempts to deny Aboriginal people access to things - the barriers are made up of all the things I have mentioned - and lots of Aboriginal people are leaping them. Sadly, lots aren't cos it is very hard to do stuff like that, for a huge variety of reasons.
The record is bad enough, Steissd, in terms of terrible government policies in the past and behaviour by settlers, missionaries and so on - not to mention the racism of the ignorant and stupid - don't persist in trying to add something that isn't there.
Thanks for explanation, Dlowan. I always considered arrival of the British colonists to be in favor of the indigenous population, since they brought with them the achievements of the Western civilization. I see, you do not agree with this... OK, you live in the Commonwealth, and you know better the situation.
I want to make it clear, my position has nothing to do with any of the racial theories. On the contrary, I always believed that all the people belonged to the same biological species, therefore what is good for a Westerner cannot be detrimental to anyone else. Maybe, the ways the Europeans tried to integrate the indigenous people were somewhat erroneous?
...somewhat...
That said, I'm impressed that you do seem to have a somewhat open mind about this stuff, rather than just clinging to presuppositions.
Your irony, Sozobe, seems somewhat exaggerated. We cannot judge people of the 18th-19th centuries using criteria of the last quarter of the 20th century.
steissd, The first Europeans to reach Australia treated the aboriginals as below humans. I'll leave the rest up to your imagination. c.i.
The problem is not that Western civilization would be bad for aboriginals. It is that aboriginals are not given the fruits of Western civilization from the beginning, or even a choice to accept or reject - just treachery and abuse. If the West had come with good intentions from the first the aboriginals might well have assimilated in time. Then again, they might not. In a world of good will and respect, no one would have cared.
200 years of mistreatment cannot be erased in a generation or two.
You really started something interesting here, edgarB.
edgar, I'm almost positive that the aboriginals would have assimilated well if they were treated equally from the very beginning. After all, we are all decended from the same gene pool called homo sapiens. c.i.
I imagine some would and some wouldn't assimilate.
littlek, That's a given. We have strange bed-fellows in this world that takes more than a few courses in social study to understand. c.i.
It's a huge philosophical question. Is there a benefit to full assimilation? Is competition or co-operation better?
definitely the thin edge of a wedge in terms of a debate.
I think little k is right. In the USA some tribes of Native American Indians tried to assimilate; others had no intent ever. None was given much of a chance to decide.
edgarblythe hit the nail on the head;
None was given much of a chance to decide.
ehBeth- This whole discussion is really "jelling" for me. I think it is besides the point as to whether or not there are benefits to assimilation- Some may say "yes", others, "no". The fact that the new culture was foisted on a people already living, and having a long history in an area, IMO, is the crux of the issue.
I agree with you, Phoenix, but i know many people would argue the point that the benefits of assimilation out-weighing, well, many other factors.
Full assimulation is really not necessary; only respect for the choices each one makes. c.i.
one of the problems with assimilation is that many times it was forced on the indigenious peoples. often times by people who thought they were doing God's work.
"Assimilation" is something of a dirty word in Oz, because of the legacy of government policies of assimilation which attempted to force Aboriginal people into white culture.
I have no doubt at all that western culture and technology has a great deal to offer. I have never said that I believed Aboriginal people should not have been able to join the modern world - just that, in common with all colonialized indigenous peoples that I am aware of, the way in which western culture was introduced was, by today's ethics, incredibly brutal and damaging.
I hope, as I have already said, that eventually Aboriginal people will be able to choose what aspects of their indigenous culture they wish to maintain - and enrich the rest of us with, as they are doing - and which aspects of western culture, as well as all the multitudinous cultures that form modern Oz society, they wish to adopt. Just as others are free, within legal limits, to express diversity.
Oh - the western culture is, of course, being changed by all the other cultures, just as it provides a challenge to people from different cultures who move here.
I cannot believe how much Australian culture has changed during my lifetime - a fair degree of that change has been due to the effect of migrant groups as they share their cultuer with us.
Heaven only knows what the culture will look like in another fifty years. I know how I would like it to look- but it sure as hell won't be like it is now. I hope a lot of Aboriginal culture will be in the mix. Kids in schools learn heaps about it now, from Aboriginal consultants - and seem to glory in it.
This "assimilation" isn't all a one way street, you know.
dlowan, Amen. When any peoples think their culture is superior, it creates problems for all. c.i.
