The Philosophy of Fairy Tales..............................

Of The Sun, West Of The Moon"

Half of a letter
Tells half a story
The way I see it
It's half the worry
Where I came from
I forgot too soon...
East of the sun
And west of the moon
Money talks
And hey, I'm listening
I've lived without it
Enough to miss it
Where I'm going
I'll get there soon
East of the sun
And west of the moon
Another day leaves me aching
I try to wake up
But something's breaking
Here inside me
Deep and hollow
A sound that no other sound could follow
I know the pain
Before the wound
East of the sun
And west of the moon.

Diana Krall did this, among others, which reminds me of Bo the Brat.

Interesting how everthing harkens back to the almighty buck..........and that is a philosophy unto itself....no fairies need apply.

Well, anyway, the point was that Into the Woods philosophizes a lot of different fairy tales in different ways. Here's some lyrics so you can see.

The Baker's wife trades Jack questionably magic beans for cow: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/soundtracks/i/intothewoodslyrics/maybetheyremagiclyrics.html
(Sort of ends-justifies-means philosophy)

LRRH meets wolf: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/soundtracks/i/intothewoodslyrics/hellolittlegirllyrics.html
Followup: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/soundtracks/i/intothewoodslyrics/iknowthingsnowlyrics.html
(This and the next one are both about philosophy of growing up and/or losing virginity, at least so they appear to me.)

In the same vein, Jack meets giants: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/soundtracks/i/intothewoodslyrics/giantsintheskylyrics.html

Cinderella leaves her shoe for Prince Charming to find: http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/intothewoods/onthestepsofthepalace.htm
(What do we really want? If you can't take the initiative to get what you want, do you really want it?)

More on the subject of wanting, the two Princes sing about the princesses before and after they get them.
Before: http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/intothewoods/agony.htm
After: http://www.stlyrics.com/songs/b/broadways10461/intothewoodsagonyiireprise338267.html
(Is it the chase or the prize that you want?)

This is sort of meta-fairytale philosophy, compared to real life - about what it means to go "into the woods" - the Baker's wife has a liazon with Prince Charming (second act, after she has a child): http://www.stlyrics.com/songs/b/broadways10461/intothewoodsmomentsinthewoods338280.html

So yeah, it's a lot of stuff. Don't know if it's actually a "fairy tale" per se, but it sort of plays on the meanings we might give fairy tales if we were to be so bold.

The Rapunzel song I didn't find (and I recall it's pretty short anyway), but Rapunzel rebels from the witch's restrictions (i.e. locking her in a tower) and runs away with the prince, who (in the second act) dumps her and leaves her stranded in the desert somewhere with a baby. She reappears briefly before killing herself, and the witch sings a song somewhere about getting "children to listen", and about protecting children from "the world". More modern philosophy, I suppose.

Here are Into the Woods lyrics:

http://search.able2know.com/Music/Lyrics/Various/Show_Tunes_and_Movie_Soundtracks/I/Into_the_Woods/index.html

Yeah, they never have all the songs for some reason. I went and hunted around.

Edit: Actually, that does have most of the ones I linked, heh. Never knew that was on here. And I found the Rapunzel song: http://search.able2know.com/About/17534.html

Well, Jes. I know that you got that from the portal. See? I remember stuff.

I am delighted with all of the media that we have discovered by a simple delving into fantasy land.

rufio, I do understand your anthropological insight. What a night. I swear, I saw earlier that a movie is to be made on Kinsey. Now that would incorporate it all. prose, music, movies, poetry, psychology. All we need is the fourth estate.

I have a rendezvous with stuh, and I need to keep it.

Damn things are a Rorschach - our biases and interests determine what we see.

Not to say that many of the things read into them by psychologists are not THERE - it is very possible, and indeed likely, since our fantasies must reflect our psyches - and these have appealed to many psches down the ages....

I would be very interested if our analytic asnd anthropological folk would comment more.

Philosophy of fairy tales? Oh my - more examples so I can get my head around the concept, Letty?

I see some ethics in them - do not scorn the humble, ugly and poor; do not judge from external appearances (samr thing?); be adventurous; treat animals kindly, but ruthlessly exploit giants and trolls and such; three is a very important number.......

I mentioned Campbell in the context of showing the importance of myth, folktales, fairytales, btw. Not his own stories (did he have any?)

I have a shelf on this stuff, will have to page through...

A lot of what people teach their children in metaphor would probably naturally have to do with sex and relationships, since learning about that is a huge part of socializing the child into the society. I'm actually reading the Raw and the Cooked now, and Levi-Strauss interprets the (non-Western) fairy tales as allegories to reinforce the importance of proper gender relations and coming of age ceremonies... yeah. I remember hearing someone comment on how many of our children's stories center on children without mothers. I don't know what exactly that means, but whatever.

I think applying metaphors like the rubbing of lamps in fairy tales that were written ages ago in completely different contexts to modern-day metaphors and implications is nonsense. That's not the only genie story in Arabian stories (just read 1001 nights!), and they come from all kinds of vessals requiring all kinds of techniques to find them, and come to all ages and genders of people.

Well, Deb, The only time I ever looked at an inkblot, I saw two rams back to back. I was told it was a guarded sex reply. Let's examine the three billy goats gruff. It would seem the implication in that one, might imply the patriarchal thing. Only the dominant of the group is fit to guard the tribe or herd. Sheeeeeze. I just had a simple idea in mind, and that was to point out that children are shaped by so many things, among which are fairy tales.

Soz, I'm beginning to believe that I better stick to poetry...much easier.

Well, rufio, nonsense to some, chapter and verse to others, and that is what makes anthropology a challenging field.

What a coincidence, Letty. The last time I looked at an ink blot I saw two rams belly to belly. I guess that might be counted as a gay sexual reading. Nah!

Well, folks. I really appreciate all the input here. I am totally tired, so I'll say goodnight for now.

From Letty with love

ok, ok, JL. conceded.

The last time I looked at an inkblot, I thought "damn, my pen is leaking again." Then I looked down and realized that I had gone to work with no pants on again, and my mother was looking at me with disdain.

Hee, hee, Cav. Better that we stick with Gestalt, then.

Along the same lines, if we could be any fairy tale character, I wonder what we would be.

After cleaning up my Florida room, I feel somewhat akin to Cinderella, but instead of cinders, I labor among the broken glass of a slipper.

Cav, you would definitely be the chef in the prince's palace.

Come on folks. Who would you be in any fairy tale?

This is a picture of Hans-Jurgen P. Walter, who developed Gestalt Theoretical Psychylogy in the 1970s. Doesn't he bear a passing resemblance to Douglas Fairbanks Sr.?

Which fairy tales have swashbucklers in them?

<If this stretches the page, my apologies>

Well, my word, cav. He's just totally the sum of his parts.

Now let's see.

J.L. would have to be the roving violinist in the palace.

Jes, The fairy godmother

On to other tales of fairies.....................

rufio would be the little girl who trod on a loaf.

I wouldn't mind being a dark elf with a bow and sharp arrows.

Walter behaves totally different to Douglas Fairbanks. Thus, when meeting him personally, you never would think of such.
(I met him, when I had a job interview in his former clinic, and he was part of the interview team. [No, I didn't get that job: I was too sceptic about the uniqueness of Theoretical Gestalt Psychology, as apostulated in that clinic.])

Poof, you are a dark elf. but leave those outrageous arrows of misfortune in their quiver.

Walter, you can't be Douglas, you're already a frog with a tiny crown on your head.

(did you really meet Douglas, Jr.?)

Gus would have to be all three Billy Goats Gruff.