12
   

ITS GETTING UGLY HEREIN, let's remember

 
 
catbeasy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2016 03:24 pm
@cicerone imposter,


Hi CI, not sure what this was in response to? I can't find the fit on the posts I made..
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2016 04:30 pm
@catbeasy,
catbeasy wrote:

Aside from your obvious provincial knowledge regarding other countries...


This "provincialism" is based on my feeling that it is ethical to return concern equal to what is received, or better yet, not to be exploited by those who do little, but feel entitled to much, a la the grasshopper and the ant fable.
catbeasy
 
  3  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2016 04:54 pm
@Foofie,
I think you are mixing up the comments..

The provincialism was directed toward your statement:

Quote:
After 9/11, I sort of remember only the Brits showing any authentic sympathy, or did I miss something?


So, yes, we are saying you did miss something. There were plenty of people outside of England that cared about what happened on 9/11..

Provincialism in this context had nothing to do with your statement about returning equivalent sentiments. And if you meant in your use of provincialism your selective stance towards giving where appropriate; well, speaking of equivalences..

There are none. You are speaking of a situation of which you know next to nothing about: Whether other countries 'deserve' your empathic thoughts. You know next to nothing to nothing about it because you haven't put in the time to study it. But because I'm kind, Ill help you out..see my next post..

But before that, does it not occur to you that statistically speaking people all over the world would have empathic reactions? You obviously understand that some would not!

And then there's the matter of your 'exploited' statement. Help me understand how you are exploited showing empathy for people of other countries that you don't even know? If you are to be exploited, there must be something that happens so we can say: You were exploited. This empathy is the easiest kind: It doesn't cost anything! No one is asking for your money, your time, resources, whatever. Its just simply a good-will thought for those less fortunate than yourself. Its in the abstract!

Look, I can understand your comments with a known quantity. I am in agreement that someone who asks for something with the effect of not returning like ever (what we call 'being taken advantage of) will not get much if anything from me. I get that. Once bitten..sure. But that is concrete. This other situation is abstract. Are you really going to believe that everyone from every other country besides England didn't care about 9/11? Or you are going to so partition the people up so that those who didn't care (and there were some in England that didn't care either!) are going to drive whether you care about those that did?

Personally I don't care what you do. Me and the folks in other countries will not be affected directly by your lack of concern. It is more your bad logic that I'm dismayed about. o, why be logical? Just admit you hate certain groups of people without cause. I can handle that and can't really argue against it..
catbeasy
 
  4  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2016 04:58 pm
@Foofie,
Here you go and you can youtube some of this stuff if you need to see to believe..

Source: http://mentalfloss.com/article/28724/we-are-all-americans-worlds-response-911

In Beijing, tens of thousands of people visited the U.S. Embassy, leaving flowers, cards, funeral wreaths and hand-written notes of condolence on the sidewalk out front.

In Moscow, women who spoke no English and had never been to the U.S. were captured on film sobbing in front of a makeshift tribute on a sidewalk, and every single church and monastery in Romania held a memorial prayer.

In France, a well-known newspaper, Le Monde, ran a headline reading, “We Are All Americans.”

In the Middle East, both the Israeli president and the Palestinian leader condemned the attacks, and made a show of donating blood.

Kuwaitis lined up to donate blood as well. Jordanians signed letters of sympathy.

In Tehran, an entire stadium of people gathered for a soccer match observed a moment of silence, and in Turkey, flags flew at half-staff.

In Berlin, 200,000 people packed the streets leading to the Brandenburg Gate.

A thousand miles south, in Dubrovnik, Croatia, schoolchildren took a break from classes to bow their heads in silence.

In Dublin, shops and pubs were closed during a national day of mourning, and people waited in a three-hour line to sign a book of condolences.

In Sweden, Norway and Finland, trams and buses halted in tribute

In Russia, television and radio stations went silent to commemorate the innocent dead.

In Azerbaijan, Japan, Greenland, Bulgaria and Tajiskitan, people gathered in squares to light candles, murmur good wishes and pray.

And in Pretoria, South Africa, little kids perched on their parents’ shoulders holding mini American flags.

Firefighters in Hungary tied black ribbons to their trucks, firefighters

in South Africa flew red, white and blue, and firefighters in Poland sounded their sirens, letting loose a collective wail one warm afternoon.

Cubans offered medical supplies. Ethiopians offered prayers. Kyrgyzstan,

Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan offered their air space, and dozens of other world leaders called the White House to offer their support.

Hundreds of thousands of people in Canada, Albania and Sierra Leone marched in the streets in shows of solidarity, and mosques

in Bangladesh, Yemen, Pakistan, Libya and Sudan trembled with clerics’ condemnation of those “cowardly” and “un-Islamic” attacks.

Lebanese generals convened to sign letters of sympathy, and in

Italy, Pope John Paul II fell to his knees in prayer.

Albania, Ireland, Israel, Canada, Croatia, South Korea and the Czech Republic all declared national days of mourning, and the legendary bells of Notre Dame echoed throughout Paris.

In Italy, race car drivers preparing for the upcoming Italian Grand Prix silenced their engines, and in London, hundreds stood quietly during the noontime chimes of Big Ben.

In Belgium, people held hands, forming a human chain in front of the
Brussels World Trade Center, and seventeen time zones away, strangers

in Indonesia gathered on a beach to pray.

In India, children taped up signs that read, “This is an attack on all of us,” and in Austria, church bells tolled in unison.
ossobucotemp
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2016 05:06 pm
@catbeasy,
Thank you for the list, good to read.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2016 05:22 pm
@catbeasy,
one small Canajun town's story


Quote:
When the United States shut down its airspace, tiny Gander International Airport in Newfoundland opened its runways, taking in 38 wide-body planes on transatlantic routes.


Quote:
The people of Gander, a town of no more than 10,000, looked at all those planes lined up at the airport and didn’t think of terrorism, didn’t see potential attacks. They just wanted to help.

It was a logistical challenge. The city didn’t have hotels or restaurants to take in nearly 7,000 passengers, and the community knew that the people from more than 100 countries stuck on those planes were mothers, fathers, daughters, sons, grandmothers. Just like the Newfoundlanders were.


Quote:
Shirley Brooks-Jones, 80, was one of those plane people on her way back home to Ohio from Europe when Delta Flight 15 — the same plane that Folkes was on — was diverted to Newfoundland.

After 28 hours on the plane, she and her fellow passengers were bused to the even tinier fishing village of Lewisporte. They spent the next three days in that town, where the mayor and most of the residents cooked elaborate meals, let them use their showers, even borrow their cars.


the Gander story has been turned into a play

http://www.broadway.com/buzz/183845/its-confirmed-911-musical-come-from-away-will-bow-on-broadway-in-spring-2017/

Quote:
It's official! The much-buzzed about new musical Come From Away will bow on Broadway in the spring of 2017 at a theater to be announced. Prior to appearing on the Main Stem, the tuner is scheduled to run at Washington D.C.’s Ford’s Theatre September 2 through October 9 and in Toronto at a Mirvish Theatre to be announced from November 15 through January 1, 2017.

Directed by Christopher Ashley, the show has a book, music and lyrics by husband-and-wife duo David Hein and Irene Sankoff. Come From Away is based on the true story of when the isolated community of Gander, Newfoundland played host to the world. What started as an average day in a small town turned in to an international sleep-over when 38 planes, carrying thousands of people from across the globe, were diverted to Gander’s air strip on September 11, 2001. Undaunted by culture clashes and language barriers, the people of Gander cheered the stranded travelers with music, an open bar and the recognition that we’re all part of a global family.

catbeasy
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2016 05:24 pm
@ossobucotemp,
You're welcome. I shouldn't have to post such a thing (in response to someone not believing the world didn't care). You have to be a real piece of Samsonite to think the whole world with the exception of a single country either could care less or lauded this action. In fact, knowing a bit of psychology and sociology would tell you that by so very far most people around the world cared empathetically with what happened..

Those who do not see this are likely to have television as their main source of information..
catbeasy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2016 05:28 pm
@ehBeth,
Nice!
0 Replies
 
ossobucotemp
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2016 05:39 pm
@ossobucotemp,
I'm thinking more about that list, grateful for the account it gives. I'm a heavy reader but read fast and don't have stacks of data in my brain files, which doesn't mean that I'm not interested, actually the opposite; I tend to retain niblits of where I saw some good explanatory articles.. so far, so good, but I'm getting old these days. Not to compare myself to foofie, whom I rarely read unless someone quotes him or her, but my interests are fairly global, if not densely informed.

My point? I, the wide if shallow reader, didn't realize there were so many actions in so many countries showing empathy to us, US not an always well regarded place.
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2016 05:47 pm
@ehBeth,
Gee, when I read the sentence about the Gander experience being turned into a play, that made my eyes start to tear, just a little, a short fast reaction.
0 Replies
 
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2016 05:50 pm
@catbeasy,
Your last sentence made me laugh, but I agree with it in a serious way.

And now there are tweets. I foresee a confused populace or populaces.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2016 06:01 pm
@ossobucotemp,
ossobucotemp wrote:
US not an always well regarded place.


the US was pretty popular (globally) before and just after 9-11

then came the American response to 9-11and <plummet>

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/06/BoP-Report-38.png

went down 20 points in Canada
it's almost back to its pre-Bush popularity level here
we're pretty fond of Mr. Obama

http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/06/23/1-americas-global-image/
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2016 07:06 pm
@ehBeth,
Me too. I think he has steel, in a good way, re handling stuff. I've disagreed, occasionally seriously, but in general I regard him well. I will hugely miss him, we will hugely miss him in the US, and not only us, some of the rest of the world.

Thanks for the world view link. I'm not your fastest perceptor on number blooms but sometimes I catch on.


0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2016 02:36 pm
@catbeasy,
catbeasy wrote:


... Just admit you hate certain groups of people without cause. I can handle that and can't really argue against it..



I don't hate anyone. I just don't feel comfortable with many people, so I avoid them, physically, emotionally, and intellectually. That is not hate. That can just be seeing myself as too different from many that I have little in common with and am uncomfortable with them and the culture they enjoy. It would be easy to label me hateful, I believe; it relieves others from wondering why someone might just be uncomfortable with them, and avoid them.
Foofie
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2016 02:41 pm
@catbeasy,
I just am not interested in your list. I am only a citizen of the U.S. I care for them. The Brits have enough in common with the U.S. for me to relate to their feelings. It's really simple; I do not resonate with all the world's people. Try not proselytizing to me, since I do not proselytize to you.
0 Replies
 
catbeasy
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2016 03:11 pm
@Foofie,
Well, that would be fair enough as the answer you related here makes sense to me..

However, this was not the context in which you gave your previous answer. Your previous answer indicated your reason for not feeling for others because they did not feel for you; you used 9/11 as an example..this sort of left it dangling, the presumption being that if they did care for you, you would return in kind..actually you said as much..

Now, given this, maybe my saying you hate folks was a bit much. But in this context, it does come across as a bit immature or something. Especially in light of your 9/11 comments and the world not caring..

So, if you are not comfortable with folks of a different ilk, fair enough. Not everyone can be Ghandi (forgive my hyperbole). I get that and as long as the maxim is something along the lines of "do no harm", well, you're ahead of the game and I can dig that..

But again, that wasn't the initial context of the conversation..

Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2016 03:22 pm
@catbeasy,
catbeasy wrote:

Well, that would be fair enough as the answer you related here makes sense to me..

However, this was not the context in which you gave your previous answer. Your previous answer indicated your reason for not feeling for others because they did not feel for you; you used 9/11 as an example..this sort of left it dangling, the presumption being that if they did care for you, you would return in kind..actually you said as much..

Now, given this, maybe my saying you hate folks was a bit much. But in this context, it does come across as a bit immature or something. Especially in light of your 9/11 comments and the world not caring..

So, if you are not comfortable with folks of a different ilk, fair enough. Not everyone can be Ghandi (forgive my hyperbole). I get that and as long as the maxim is something along the lines of "do no harm", well, you're ahead of the game and I can dig that..

But again, that wasn't the initial context of the conversation..




Being afflicted with a boorish personality, you should not waste your breath on me.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2016 03:33 pm
@catbeasy,
Interesting;I just put in a cd to watch World Trade Center.
0 Replies
 
catbeasy
 
  3  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2016 03:48 pm
@Foofie,
I'm not trying to proselytize you. You made a statement that the rest of the world didn't care about what happened on 9/11 and you used it to support your lack of empathy for the rest of the worlds people.

All I did was say your assumption about the rest of the world not caring was incorrect. So, that can not be used for supporting your lack of empathy. To me, that is not proselytizing.

Then you move to saying that you just can't relate to others and that's your reasoning. I can't argue that. There is no logic or facts in that sentiment to dispute and I personally don't think its appropriate to try to disabuse someone of these types of feelings. So, yeah, I wish you would have said that in the first place.

But fair enough, you don't wish to continue in any conversation which is in dispute of what you think, which I think kinda anomalous for a philosophy/political thread/forum..

Peace..
0 Replies
 
catbeasy
 
  3  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2016 08:29 am
Well, his comments about not caring for the people of other countries because 'no one cared about 9/11' and then changing it to not caring because of issues with not being able to relate does seem a bit schiz..(in the colloquial sense)..so..yeah..getting to know who's who here..but initially prefer to give benefit of the doubt until I see that someone is incorrigible or are just being a troll..thanks..
 

 
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