Sat 22 Oct, 2016 05:25 am
From the BBC.
Quote:A judge in the US state of Montana, who gave a 60-day jail term to a man for having sex with his 12-year-old daughter, has faced growing calls for his removal.
The 40-year-old father of three's sentence also included a 30-year suspended prison term.
District Judge John McKeon has defended himself, saying the victim's mother and grandmother opposed a jail sentence.
A petition calling for his removal has gathered more than 70,000 signatures.
Under a deal with the state, the man pleaded guilty to a single felony count of incest for having sex with his daughter. Two other charges were dismissed.
The state recommended a prison sentence of 100 years with 75 years suspended, meaning he would spend 25 years in prison.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37732204
Attitudes differ around the world but if the sexual relationship was consensual between adults that penalty was pretty normal in European/British terms. Incest is not against the law in Spain as long as it is between two consenting adults. However a father (36) and his daughter (18) who have had a baby together have gone public with their incestuous relationship after their child was taken into care. They insist they are in a loving relationship and should be allowed to bring up the girl, who is also the man's granddaughter. (Obviously, I would have thought, but this is the Daily Mirror).
In the UK, a father (47) got 10 months jail and his daughter (26) got 26 weeks suspended. These were second offences; they had already been prosecuted before. She was 7 when her father walked out and they had no contact until she was in her 20s and tracked him down using the internet. (Off to Benidorm when he gets out?)
A father/daughter couple in New Zealand were given supervison orders and the father also given community work, (she had a child) but now they've been caught at it again and are on bail and banned from communicating.
Much though most people abhor these types of relationship, if both parties consent and are determined to carry on there isn't really an awful lot you can do about it.
To be clear, this light approach is taken when it isn't simple plain unwanted abuse by a parent of their child. The fact that the girl in Montana was 12 makes the sentence surprising, and if it was non consensual (and 12 year olds cannot legally consent) then you'd expect several years prison, surely?
@contrex,
60 days is unusually lenient.
@contrex,
Quote: if the sexual relationship was consensual between adults
You understand that a 12 year old girl living in the home and eating the food supplied by the man having sex with her - who by the way is in the ultimate position of authority over her as her father - is not an "adult" and not exactly in a position to "consent"?
@snood,
snood wrote:
Quote: if the sexual relationship was consensual between adults
You understand that a 12 year old girl living in the home and eating the food supplied by the man having sex with her - who by the way is in the ultimate position of authority over her as her father - is not an "adult" and not exactly in a position to "consent"?
Try reading my post all the way to the end, especially the last paragraph.
I think part of my problem was distraction by the "incest" tag. In the UK certainly, incest is a crime with 2 participants; sex between a father and an underage child would be prosecuted under a different law, that aimed at sexual abuse of children.
@contrex,
contrex wrote:
snood wrote:
Quote: if the sexual relationship was consensual between adults
You understand that a 12 year old girl living in the home and eating the food supplied by the man having sex with her - who by the way is in the ultimate position of authority over her as her father - is not an "adult" and not exactly in a position to "consent"?
Try reading my post all the way to the end, especially the last paragraph.
Thanks for the condescending tone. I did read your whole post. I reiterated the "unable to consent" piece because of all the mixed message garbledy gook you wrote
before the last paragraph.
@snood,
snood wrote:the mixed message garbledy gook you wrote before the last paragraph.
I presume you mean "gobbledygook". What I wrote before the last paragraph was neither that nor "mixed message". It was a straightforward account of the way consensual incest is regarded in different jursidictions, with examples. It's not my problem if you can't appreciate that. Just to make it clear, I am not in favour of, nor do I wish to excuse, either consensual incest, or much less, criminal child abuse.
@contrex,
Congratulations on the correct spelling of a word to describe nonsense. You have taken the role of pedant to a new level of officiousness.
@snood,
snood wrote:You have taken the role of pedant to a new level of officiousness.
I felt you needed some help in getting over yourself.
@contrex,
contrex wrote:
snood wrote:You have taken the role of pedant to a new level of officiousness.
I felt you needed some help in getting over yourself.
I'm honored. Who's gonna help you?
Judge McKeon obviously takes his cue's from Trump, and the mother and grandmother are follower's of Melania.
Quote:District Judge John McKeon has defended himself, saying the victim's mother and grandmother opposed a jail sentence.
Quote:The judge also cited a letter from the victim's mother, in which she acknowledged the "horrible" nature of the crime, but asked for leniency.
"He needs help - not to spend 25 years locked up," she said, according to excerpts published by NPR.
"He has two sons that still love him and need their father in their lives, even with very understandable restrictions. I would like to see my children have an opportunity to heal the relationship with their father.
"He is not a monster, just a man that really screwed up and has been paying in many ways since and will continue to have to pay through this justice system and with the loss of family and friends and his own conscience."
The girl's maternal grandmother also wrote a letter to the court, saying: "What [the defendant] did to my granddaughter was horrible, and he should face consequences.
"But his children, especially his sons, will be devastated if their dad is no longer part of their lives."
Court records said the victim did not attend the sentencing hearing, NPR reported, and that no-one testified on her behalf.
@snood,
snood wrote:I'm honored. Who's gonna help you?
I am beyond all help in that respect.
@snood,
In this situation, I'll agree with snood. I'm a long time word makerupper, live with it. It's a kind of word play. Snood may not have meant it that way, but maybe he is somewhat like me, enjoying wordage.
Meantime, this is not a grammar thread.
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