Sex, Religion and Politics.

LC, I love to discuss and debate issues and go toe to toe with an intelligent person who can lay out a reasoned and well expressed argument for a thesis opposing mine. Such people I admire and respect and what is worth debating if it is not done with passion?

It gets damned frustrating, however, when people can't do that without some jerk showing up to interject ridicule, insults, and innuendo. I'm not sure what can be done about that or whether anyone else considers it a problem.

I agree, Foxfrye. Let's continually work to maintain/encourage high standards of civility.

You couldn't possibly be talking about things like "You suck because you support/like/believe [insert epithet here]." As a knowledge exchange board, I think one should leave truth at the door, but feel free to bring your opinions, and be as nice as possible.

You always make me grin, Cav

Yes, what you said, and also not helpful to friendly debate are more subjective insults like, 'your fallacious statement' or "your stupid assertion", or your 'highly partisan position'. I think intelligent debaters can competently refute a fallacious or stupid or partisan argument by simply stating the accurate facts or explaining how the other position is incorrect without insulting the other's position.

I've always been one for brevity, foxfyre, even if people sometimes think my pen is firmly rooted in my rear end.

Well I would never criticize your fashion sense, Cav.

For purposes of intellectual honesty, I should amend my previous statement to say that I have on occasion criticized a source as being blatantly partisan to the point of providing intentional misinformation, and I have been guilty of commenting when a post or a string is particularly hateful or mean spirited. I do try very hard not to direct personal insults to the one making a post or to the post that s/he makes. And it is just easier to withdraw from a thread these days than to deal with those with different standards.

My real problem responding to posts of articles, and 'facts' in politics or religion, is that I take most of the sources as half-truths. It doesn't matter much really. I have no problem addressing someone when they are intentionally rude, whatever I believe.

Well with some writers, I agree with the 'half truths' assessment and on occasion I think some are capable of total fabrication. Some writers and some publications I do trust to tell it as they believe it to be at the time.

I'll grant 'as they believe it to be at the time'. 'Time' is a fleeting thing however, and what many folks do is argue as if the issue was something carved in stone.

Yes, though 'at this time' is sometimes the only information we have on which to base an opinion or decision. The wise and prudent I think will always be willing to amend an opinion or decision when new and better information becomes available, but presidents, parents, and profiteers don't always have the luxury of being able to wait to see if new and better information will be forthcoming.

I used to be very set in my beliefs about certain things, but as a result of some of these forums have changed my mind, or altered my perception on something.

I think that what needs to be appreciated is that the aim is not to get people to agree with you, it is simply to express your opinions and listen to theirs. I think that some people are very much into generalistaions, which don't always go down well.

These subjects are very much a passion for a lot of people, so I think that the animal side comes out when these passions are stirred.

Also, sometimes it's hard to explain why you feel something, and it could be a lot to do with frustration....who knows!?

Grrrrr....lol

No doubt about that Carrie.

Too many people react to those passions and when they are 'stirred' as you say, will respond by belittling or attacking or insulting another member. In almost every case, however, if one writes a rebuttal to the statement and carefully avoids insulting either the other person and/or his statement, invariably the anger subsides and usually dissipates in the process of organizing and putting down your own reasoned statement.

I agree. It's like confronting people who are trying to get under your skin by staying calm. It's respectful and gives them and you another avenue other than an angry response, which often gets in the way of what you are really trying to express anyway.

I often think that many people misunderstand the word debate. It's not about insulting people or going in all guns blazing but about information, informed decisions, and generally getting the information interpretations, and perceptions going.

Hear hear!!! I nominate Carrie to be in charge of debate policy here.

Concerning sex and politics ... there's been some intermixing of campaigning and sexying up, apparently ... wanna exchange a vote for a f***? Or just keep it at having fun at both?

Nerve: Cock the Vote - Two new sites attempt to stuff the ballot box

(Warning: image above article is not of the kind you want your boss to catch you looking at when you're covertly surfing the web in office time ;-))

Hmmm, very innovative Nimh. Don't you wish you were in America, at least up to the election?

I never thought about pimping for votes but you have to get up pretty early to get ahead of those young Democrats.

I relate to Carrie, re ability to change.

Though I am pretty thickly developed in my thinking, I do tweak once in a while when someone's statement coalesces with some of my own past reverberations on some issue, and those can both send me off on a new chase for sense making.

For me, the byplay of various sorts of Up Yours! and Take That! are just distractions. Or worse, sloughs of despond.

I don't post much, as it is boring to say I agree with x or y or
z... (heh, reminds me of George Z Bush, in 2036, but never mind).

but I learn from all here, not least those I tend to disagree with.

I am glad for all who spend the time to delineate why they think what they think here, whether I agree with him or her or not.

As to why I don't post more, I don't have the energy to outline form the reasons for my opinions, usually, and I know doing that is appreciated and useful. In lieu of that, I am chary of bouncing around pontificating.

Which brings up the pontiff,

well, never mind.

Osso, I pontificate because it helps to establish neural connections. At my age that is important.

Neural pontification, long may it live.

Adding a little white smoke...