0
   

The existence of God

 
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Aug, 2016 11:37 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
... and brought back their foreskins
Thanks Ed. once again...my entire day...Showing Wag one of 'em cruelty and rush to kill
0 Replies
 
MadJW
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2018 10:05 am
@jwagner,
jwagner wrote:

Is there a God?

------------------------------------------
Depends on what you mean by that term....
0 Replies
 
Coryrash1230
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2019 02:55 pm
@jwagner,
Please share this Will. Ive been having some issues lately an im going to need one
https://m.gofund.me/insulin-pump-surgery
0 Replies
 
vansdad
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Jan, 2020 09:03 pm
Yes. Logic dictates it and our emotions confirm it
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Jan, 2020 07:16 am
Seemed obvious too.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Jan, 2020 03:41 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

freekundli wrote:

We have not seen god. It does not mean that god does not exist

We've not seen Unicorns and Elves either, does that mean they exist?

Everything imaginary exists within the imagination because it is recognizable in terms of other, known forms.

So unicorns, for example, are only imaginable because horses exist and because horned animals exist. If they didn't, then the concept of a unicorn would be unthinkable.

God is the ultimate composite identity. He is the unification of all powers and aspects of the universe, known and unknown.

Can we say that things exist that we don't know about? Yes, we know from experience that there are always unknown things beyond the horizon of our current awareness/understanding.

Nothing exists except insofar as it was created from some pre-occuring form or state. The law of conservation of energy/matter is that energy/matter cannot be created or destroyed; so it always transforms from an earlier state.

If the universe is thus in a perpetual state of creation without beginning or end, we can attribute that to a creator beyond time and space. That is possible because it is possible for us to conceive of creation without beginning/end, thus we have to account for the universe's capacity to be aware of itself and understand itself beyond its own infinite nature.

Big bang theory works like this. People ask, "what came before the big bang?" but the notion that time and space can be traced backward without reaching some absolute limit beyond which nothing earlier could have occurred implies that space/time have always been expanding but yet we are capable of analytically conceptualizing the notion of the universe expanding from a single point origin.

Whether the big bang theory is correct or some other theory, the fact that we are conscious and capable of contemplating the universe's origins/history by observing how things work and extrapolating prior causation implies that the universe contains latent potential for knowing itself and being aware of doing so, hence the capacity to describe ultimate creation in terms of an ultimate creator.

Whether or not you can stand to make the leap from thinking in terms of 'creation' to identifying it in terms of an ultimate creative agent, you have to acknowledge that the human mind is capable of taking all the complexity of a living organism and identifying it in terms of centralized agency.

It is this same capacity to identify individuality in a collection of interworking parts that also makes it possible for us to identify individuality at the level of the entire universe of creation.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jan, 2020 04:32 pm
@jwagner,
jwagner wrote:

Seems legit, what do you think the purpose of life is then? If all we do is live and then die with no hope for afterlife then what reason do I have to live? or is there an afterlife?


The universe does not owe you either a god or a purpose for life or an afterlife for that matter................

Quote:
A Man Said to the Universe
by
Stephen Crane

A man said to the universe:
“Sir, I exist!”
“However,” replied the universe,
“The fact has not created in me
a sense of obligation.”

livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Jan, 2020 05:02 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

The universe does not owe you either a god or a purpose for life or an afterlife for that matter................

The universe 'owes' equal and opposite reactions for every action.

There is no wiggle room where action and reaction, cause and effect, are concerned.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jan, 2020 05:20 pm
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:

BillRM wrote:

The universe does not owe you either a god or a purpose for life or an afterlife for that matter................

The universe 'owes' equal and opposite reactions for every action.

There is no wiggle room where action and reaction, cause and effect, are concerned.


LOL love a human claiming he or she can demand that the universe must obey cause and effect in all cases in other words a simple Newtonian universe

See the strange workings of quantum mechanical theories just to start with IE is the cat alive or dead or in some strange flux state until you open the box with the cat in it.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Jan, 2020 05:28 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

LOL love a human claiming he or she can demand that the universe must obey cause and effect in all cases in other words a simple Newtonian universe

Newton didn't invent cause and effect, though he described certain aspects of it quite eloquently.

I don't see what's funny about it, though.

Quote:
See the strange workings of quantum mechanical theories just to start with IE is the cat alive or dead or in some strange flux state until you open the box with the cat in it.

What causes the quantum superposition to collapse? Isn't that cause and effect as well?

BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jan, 2020 05:39 pm
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:

BillRM wrote:

LOL love a human claiming he or she can demand that the universe must obey cause and effect in all cases in other words a simple Newtonian universe

Newton didn't invent cause and effect, though he described certain aspects of it quite eloquently.

I don't see what's funny about it, though.

Quote:
See the strange workings of quantum mechanical theories just to start with IE is the cat alive or dead or in some strange flux state until you open the box with the cat in it.

What causes the quantum superposition to collapse? Isn't that cause and effect as well?



.
Hell no not under the many universes theory where any possible outcome occur in one universe or another.

No clear outcome for any possible action so no cause and effect.

Quote:
Causal relations: who influences whom

In everyday life and in classical physics, events are ordered in time: a cause can only influence an effect in its future not in its past. As a simple example, imagine a person, Alice, walking into a room and finding there a piece of paper. After reading what is written on the paper Alice erases the message and leaves her own message on the piece of paper. Another person, Bob, walks into the same room at some other time and does the same: he reads, erases and re-writes some message on the paper. If Bob enters the room after Alice, he will be able to read what she wrote; however Alice will not have a chance to know Bob's message. In this case, Alice's writing is the "cause" and what Bob reads the "effect." Each time the two repeat the procedure, only one will be able to read what the other wrote. Even if they don't have watches and don't know who enters the room first, they can deduce it by what they write and read on the paper. For example, Alice might write "Alice was here today," such that if Bob reads the message, he will know that he came to the room after her.

Quantum violation of causal order

As long as only the laws of classical physics are allowed, the order of events is fixed: either Bob or Alice is first to enter the room and leave a message for the other person. When quantum mechanics enters into play, however, the picture may change drastically. According to quantum mechanics, objects can lose their well-defined classical properties, such as e.g. a particle that can be at two different locations at the same time. In quantum physics this is called a "superposition."

Now an international team of physicists led by Caslav Brukner from the University of Vienna have shown that even the causal order of events could be in such a superposition. If -- in our example -- Alice and Bob have a quantum system instead of an ordinary piece of paper to write their messages on, they can end up in a situation where each of them can read a part of the message written by the other. Effectively, one has a superposition of two situations: "Alice enters the room first and leaves a message before Bob" and "Bob enters the room first and leaves a message before Alice."

"Such a superposition, however, has not been considered in the standard formulation of quantum mechanics since the theory always assumes a definite causal order between events," says Ognyan Oreshkov from the Université Libre de Bruxelles (formerly University of Vienna). "But if we believe that quantum mechanics governs all phenomena, it is natural to expect that the order of events could also be indefinite, similarly to the location of a particle or its velocity," adds Fabio Costa from the University of Vienna.

The work provides an important step towards understanding that definite causal order might not be a mandatory property of nature. "The real challenge is finding out where in nature we should look for superpositions of causal orders," explains Caslav Brukner from the Quantum Optics, Quantum Nanophysics, Quantum Information group of the University of Vienna.

livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Jan, 2020 05:41 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Hell no not under the many universes theory where any possible outcome occur in one universe or another.

Empirically speaking, how many universes do you observe?

Quote:
No clear outcome for any possible action so no cause and effect.

What causes the quantum superposition state to collapse into a definite outcome?
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2020 05:59 am
@livinglava,
He was hoping you wouldnt notice.
0 Replies
 
 

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