55
   

How can a good God allow suffering

 
 
zhendrikse
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2016 10:53 am
@neologist,
I agree that satan has a lot of power and influence in the world over the people and he can lead people to turn away from the true King and Ruler over the entire world but his power is nothing compared to God. He can only do what God allows him to do.
0 Replies
 
zhendrikse
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2016 10:58 am
@rosborne979,
The thing is logic and probability are just as much not on my side as they are not on yours. Neither of us have complete 100% proof that our belief is real. You in the same way as me are trying to justify your belief. I just happen to believe that the most reasonable way to respond to how everything came to be is that there is a God who created it and put everything into motion and he truly loves us. The Bible actually contains a lot of truth that matches up with other historic events. I look at that and see truth.
neologist
 
  3  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2016 11:32 am
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:
Your blowhole arguments are vacuous, and your lack of understanding of evolution is not a convincing argument. . .
Yeah, vacuous. As posted here.
Quote:
Well, of course, evolutionists will give the same explanation they use for other complex processes. How did the cetacean blowhole evolve, since the necessary traits, had they arrived separately would have resulted in death? The answer is, of course . . .
We may not have all the intervening data as yet, but . . . Wait for it . . .
It happened . . .
Does that argument sound familiar?
It all started here.
Quote:
Explain the evolution of the blowhole with a straight face.
I believe I understand evolution well enough to differentiate between demonstrable processes and sophistic spinach.
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2016 02:02 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:
I believe I understand evolution well enough to differentiate between demonstrable processes and sophistic spinach.

And yet clearly you do not. Your incredulity as to what the process can do is not a valid challenge. Neither is your lack of knowledge on the subject.
neologist
 
  3  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2016 02:23 pm
@rosborne979,
Even though I changed majors as a sophomore from Chem to Psychology, I still passed the GRE in chemistry; so I have a pretty good understanding of scientific method. Most of the evolution salesmen I have encountered fall short in that area.
As do my fellow psych majors.

The crossroad light might be green; but I still look both ways.
abwishman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2016 03:26 pm
@racistm3lon,
What doubts did you have that led you to become agnostic?
jwagner
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2016 03:56 pm
@zhendrikse,
Good point zhen
0 Replies
 
jwagner
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2016 03:59 pm
@abwishman,
My doubts? For one, I believe that since we are all finite beings how can we know whether or not an infinite being exists? We can't, neither you nor I can prove whether or not God exists.
jwagner
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2016 04:35 pm
@jwagner,
sorry, you weren't asking me hehe
0 Replies
 
TomTomBinks
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 May, 2016 09:58 pm
@zhendrikse,
Excerpt from the Second Book of TomTom:
...and there were great storms and rain and floods in the land of Texas. In the last year of the reign of President Obama, in the spring of that year and the people suffered, for the land was inundated.
So the Lord God spake unto his servant TomTomBinks who lived in the far north and thus he spake: "TomTom, I am the Lord thy God, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Moses; thus I command you: Go to the land of Texas and quell the storm. Stand in the midst of the land and bid the clouds to part and the rain to stop and the waters to recede."
And so TomTomBinks cashed in his Visa rewards and booked a flight to Texas. There he stood in the midst of the land and bade the clouds to part and the rain to stop and the waters to recede and he did this in the name of the God of his fathers and the God of Abraham and the God of Moses and it was so.
The clouds did part and the rain did stop and the sun shone forth as the flood receded and the land was restored and so the people of Texas were saved and they prospered in the renewed land. This is the power and the mercy of the Lord God.

What will people think of this document in 500 years? In 2000 years?
it was written by a real person (me). It contains references to real people(Texans, President Obama). and real places (Texas). It references real events (the storms and the floods); all verifiable by outside sources. And the storms actually did cease and the people of Texas survived so that's proof of a miracle and the power of God. After all, God commanded me to stop the rains and I did and then I wrote it down. This is the word of God.
Will this be used as proof of the existence of God in the far future?
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2016 04:21 am
@TomTomBinks,
TomTomBinks wrote:

Excerpt from the Second Book of TomTom:
Will this be used as proof of the existence of God in the far future?

Hell, I'm convinced already. But it'll be even more convincing when it's matured for 2000 years. Wink
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2016 04:37 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:
Even though I changed majors as a sophomore from Chem to Psychology, I still passed the GRE in chemistry; so I have a pretty good understanding of scientific method.


Yeah, right . . . leaving aide my incredulity, perhaps you could explain how either chemistry or psychology would inform you about morphological change in life forms. No one is "selling" the theory of evolution. It's holy rollers who attempt to sell their "god did it" explanation of everything who are the problem. Your alleged skepticism ought to reject that much more quickly than any problems you allege with the application of the scientific method.
TomTomBinks
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2016 09:04 am
@rosborne979,
OK, I got one believer, now how to cash in on my new found status as a prophet?
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2016 09:18 am
@TomTomBinks,
TomTomBinks wrote:

OK, I got one believer, now how to cash in on my new found status as a prophet?

You and L. Ron Hubbard... troublemakers... Wink
TomTomBinks
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2016 09:37 am
@rosborne979,
It's baffling. Hubbard made no secret of the fact that he made the whole thing up as a money-making scheme, and he still has thousands of devoted followers.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2016 10:03 am
@TomTomBinks,
TomTomBinks wrote:
It's baffling. Hubbard made no secret of the fact that he made the whole thing up as a money-making scheme, and he still has thousands of devoted followers.

Selective blindness.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2016 10:17 am
@Setanta,
Perhaps you can explain how the evolutionary hypothesis can be subjected to empirical evaluation. And don't expect adaptation to be equated with so-called "macro evolution".

BTW. Statistical relevance, please. Guessing doesn't count.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2016 10:48 am
@neologist,
Are you disputing natural selection ???
Some genotypes fail some stick. What could be more simple eh ?
Right there you have Evolution at work. The only thing you can dispute is the mathematical obscure concept of "random" mutation. No one is sure randomness applies to anything and often one speaks of pseudo randomness to refer to extremely complex data streams. That said your classic anthropomorphic speaking "God" is voodoo as explanation. If you want talk a sort of tangible God direct yourself to BEING and mathematics and general order on reality instead of speaking biblical nonsense.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2016 12:19 pm
I just sigh when every theist thread turns into an evolution debate.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2016 12:52 pm
@Leadfoot,
The topic was already running, care to address my post ??? Be bold and face it man...how can you deny natural selection, seriously ?...sheeesh it is in your face just think of dead cultures or languages...don't even bother to go debate biology if that annoys you !
0 Replies
 
 

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