How can a good God allow suffering

There is no need for anyone to force their views on others. All we need to do is try to convince others.

@livinglava,

There is no reason to separate reason in the physical world from faith in the spiritual world. Indeed, God gives people wisdom that they can not receive from the physical world.p

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@NealNealNeal,

NealNealNeal wrote:

There is no need for anyone to force their views on others. All we need to do is try to convince others.

You mostly need to start young to convicted people of beings such as the god Zeus .

Love to have someone explained how the three in one Christian god is more likely to exist then the god Zeus or any of the other gods mankind had dream up for that matter.

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@BillRM,

Where in the New Testament do you see Christians being told to force Christianity on other people?
It was not until after Constantine that "Christians" began forcing their beliefs on others (partly due to Islam).
Political power is a dangerous thing.

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@BillRM,

People want other people to accept their moral beliefs. They try to gain the power to do so
The worst modern examples of "forcing their beliefs on others" are "progressives" and "political correctness".

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@NealNealNeal,

NealNealNeal wrote:

Where in the New Testament do you see Christians being told to force Christianity on other people?
It was not until after Constantine that "Christians" began forcing their beliefs on others (partly due to Islam).
Political power is a dangerous thing.

Give me a break as soon repeat as soon as church have the power to do so under Rome they went to work at sword point.

Sadly even Christians who dare to disagree with the details of Jesus godhood was put to the sword.

Footnote there was no new testament as such until the Council of Nicaea define what would be allow in the new testament and what would not be allow in the testament and as the testament was born at the same time as the killing over it began.

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@NealNealNeal,

Quote:

The worst modern examples of "forcing their beliefs on others" are "progressives" and "political correctness".

You are completely full of belief.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Oh also on the whole by their own writing most of them had very little respect for the religion leaders of their times.

That was true of Jesus Christ as well. Anti religious does not necessarily make you Atheist .

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
Oh also on the whole by their own writing most of them had very little respect for the religion leaders of their times.

That was true of Jesus Christ as well. Anti religious does not necessarily make you Atheist .

Sorry but the large percent of the major foundering fathers was not repeat not Christian believers even if for generations there had been efforts to falsely state otherwise.

I label it a case of lying for Jesus

Jefferson being just being one example of that fact.

Oh while Jefferson had a high opinion of the so call Jesus he did not buy into the idea that this figure was in anyway super natural. See below.

Quote:

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

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@BillRM,

Oh please, I hate sidestepping. That did not address what I said.

And I think you know that I could come up with more founding fathers' quotes supporting theistic belief than You can find of counter examples.

And the fact that Jefferson rejected the popular myths about Jesus does not help your case. So do I.

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@BillRM,

And btw, did you read this part of your quote carefully?

Quote:

But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

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@Leadfoot,

Yes Jefferson was a believer that there was a worthwhile man repeat a man not a god by the name of Jesus who existence however that does not make him either a religion person an surely not a Christian.

Once more he editor out in his version of the bible all the supernatural/religion nonsense in it.

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@BillRM,

Bill---- I am trying to say that I have sympathy for your desire to not have beliefs "forced on others". I agree with you about the Catholic Church in the "Middle Ages".
My point is that neither Jesus nor what turned out to be the New Testament has anything to do with what the Catholic Church became in the Middle Ages.
In fact, Jesus taught the opposite of what the Catholic Church became. For example Jesus treated women far better than society did at the time. In reality the apostle Paul had a high opinion of women. However, he wanted Christians to have lives that glorified God.
It is our obligation to teach morality to children. This is especially true of parents. As a child I loved to pray to God.

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@NealNealNeal,

The state of NJ in their public schools until the courts rule otherwise was in the business of forcing Christianity down children throats as I was one of those children,

Many many posters on this website an many others wish to return to the days where state funds was used to force one brand of religion down the throat of children.

Hell that happen to include Jewish and other major non Christian children beside my non believer self.

By the way it was a Islam ruler who save hundreds of thousands of Jews from
deaths by torture at the hands of loving Christians by sending a large fleet to move them to lands under his control during the same time period that Columbus was bringing more loving Christians to the new world natives.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Once more he editor out in his version of the bible all the supernatural/religion nonsense in it.

I have often speculated on his reasons for doing that. I think there were two aspects to it.

First, if you require the miracles to make sense of the story, you have not actually 'seen' the concepts that Jesus was getting at. Miracles were completely superfluous to those.

Second, Maybe that was what Jefferson was trying to point out by their absence.

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@Leadfoot,

Around the time of Martin Luther, some people started to think for themselves instead of considering the Catholic Church as the ultimate authority. Devoted Christians like Isaac Newton had a difference of opinion over scientific facts. The printing press allowed people to read the Bible in their own language
Eventually, Europe went into the "Age of Reason" where thinkers discounted the need for God
While I appreciate the Scientific advances that were made, I reget the lack of acknowledgement of God. I believe that this is a mistake.
The age of reason and the sometimes brutality of The Church obviously had an influence on American shores, starting with the Pilgrams. However, the colonies were basically Christian.

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@NealNealNeal,

NealNealNeal wrote:

Eventually, Europe went into the "Age of Reason" where thinkers discounted the need for God

When was that, exactly? When Marx wrote that religion was 'the opium of the people' preventing them from rising up and taking over the means of production? Or do you mean when Kierkegaard called churches the sepluchres of God? Or do you mean when Nietzche declared that, "God is dead?"

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@NealNealNeal,

NealNealNeal wrote:

Around the time of Martin Luther, some people started to think for themselves instead of considering the Catholic Church as the ultimate authority. Devoted Christians like Isaac Newton had a difference of opinion over scientific facts. The printing press allowed people to read the Bible in their own language
Eventually, Europe went into the "Age of Reason" where thinkers discounted the need for God
While I appreciate the Scientific advances that were made, I reget the lack of acknowledgement of God. I believe that this is a mistake.
The age of reason and the sometimes brutality of The Church obviously had an influence on American shores, starting with the Pilgrams. However, the colonies were basically Christian.

Newton also have a secret disagreement with the church over the godhood of our friend Jesus.

See

Quote:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.732.418&rep=rep1&type=pdf

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@livinglava,

It started in Europe around 1675. Has it ever ended? I don't know.

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@NealNealNeal,

NealNealNeal wrote:

It started in Europe around 1675. Has it ever ended? I don't know.

I can still recall my delight in reading Paine Age of Reason as a young person that help confirm my opinion that the bible was nonsense from one end to the other.

Before that event the only famous person who I knew that shared my opinion was the most hated woman in the US IE O'Hair.

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How can a good God allow suffering

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