How can a good God allow suffering

@NealNealNeal,

Sorry. I meant to address Bill

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@NealNealNeal,

NealNealNeal wrote:

Would you prefer that I say that God is not a " created being"?

It's not what I prefer you say. It's what you believe is accurate to say based on your understanding.

Are you truly reflecting on these meanings as we are discussing them, or are you just playing with words and meanings and trying to win debates without actually believing anything you say?

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@livinglava,

The message was intended for Bill. It is irritating to have people make such a big deal about the Bible using the male term for God
As for your question
I pay attention to all of the posters and pray for them. I spend a lot of time with your posts because I ask God to explain what you mean with your posts. Sometimes I lack the understanding of what you are saying.

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@NealNealNeal,

NealNealNeal wrote:

The message was intended for Bill.

It's a public forum. There is a private-messaging function if you want to communicate with specific users exclusively and an ignore function if you don't want to see the messages posted by a certain user.

Quote:

It is irritating to have people make such a big deal about the Bible using the male term for God

It's traditional so it's a little easier to accept than when people make a point of challenging tradition by referring to God as She or It. There are also reasons God is considered a father, i.e. because motherhood refers more to nurturing while fatherhood refers more to discipline. Of course there are fathers who nurture and mothers who discipline and, generally, gender distinctions are debatable, so it's better to avoid debate by simply maintaining the 'He' tradition. That way, when you read the Bible, your mind isn't constantly questioning the use of the masculine pronoun to refer to God the father.

Quote:

As for your question
I pay attention to all of the posters and pray for them. I spend a lot of time with your posts because I ask God to explain what you mean with your posts. Sometimes I lack the understanding of what you are saying.

Well, you will need God to understand anything you read anywhere written by anyone, but I am happy to clarify anything I wrote, as that can help as well.

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@SawyerMentink,

A long time ago, God led His people the Israelites. Then they said "We don't want you to rule over us, we want a King to rule over us" God said "So be it" and left the planet Earth, and left humans in charge of the Earth, to rule their own selves and NOT be led by God.
The result of humans ruling this planet is being seen today.

What suffering on this planet is not brought about by other humans?

The Homeless suffer, who fault do you think that is? Is it God's fault for allowing it, really? you do nothing to help the homeless, but sit in your chair and blame God for going nothing. Really? What have you done to help the Homeless?

God allows us humans to reign and rule our own selves, and what you see is the result. How easy is it to blame God for allowing all the suffering on this planet all the while you don't lift one little finger to try to help.

Suffering on this planet is caused by humans, suffering is allowed by HUMANS to continue because humans turn a blind eye, and don't lift a finger to help.

Where were the Christians when pray was being taken out of school? Where was the Christians putting a stop to that? Who lifted a finger to help keep prayer in school? No Christians did NOTHING, and prayer was removed by a very small group of atheists.

Homosexuals are now getting married. Did you as a Christians try to stop this from happening, or did you do NOTHING? Don't want to rock any boats right? Don't want to get involved right?

God is Good, humans are pathetic. If you want someone to blame for all the suffering on this planet, then put the blame where it belongs, ON US.

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@DiscipleDave,

I was a baby when prayer was taken out of schools
I help the homeless to become more productive members of society. I also donate to help the poor living in other parts of the world.
I believe it is wrong to harm homosexuals physically (largely a 20th century problem in the (U S).
I tried to persuade people about the sanctity of marriage. However "misplaced compassion" for the homosexual won the day.
The United States is a democratic republic, not a Theocracy. Those who disagree with Christians have the right to have their say. I believe that Jesus taught His followers to help people with whatever needs they may have

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@NealNealNeal,

NealNealNeal wrote:

I was a baby when prayer was taken out of schools
I help the homeless to become more productive members of society. I also donate to help the poor living in other parts of the world.
I believe it is wrong to harm homosexuals physically (largely a 20th century problem in the (U S).
I tried to persuade people about the sanctity of marriage. However "misplaced compassion" for the homosexual won the day.
The United States is a democratic republic, not a Theocracy. Those who disagree with Christians have the right to have their say. I believe that Jesus taught His followers to help people with whatever needs they may have

Verily you are not far from the Kingdom of God. Those who love much are forgiven much. Clearly you may be one of the very few that understands this Truth.

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@NealNealNeal,

Yes I remember when the state force me to take part in prayer as a child even those I had by my own reasons became a atheist at a very very early age.

Footnote do not leave a bible lying around a young bookworm and nerd child or you risking he will read the bible an come to the firm conclusion it is complete nonsense.

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God desires to have a personal relationship with us. I have always enjoyed talking to God. We prayed in my school from first to third grade. We had a good time praying and singing to God
The worst years of my life we're when I did not believe in God I then learned that God did exist and that He loves me
I am delighted to have Jesus as my Lord and Savior.

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@NealNealNeal,

Come on now as the god who is so fill with love at one time is said to had drown most of the human race including infants in their mother arms.

Not my idea of a loving god.

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@DiscipleDave,

Quote:

Where were the Christians when pray was being taken out of school? Where was the Christians putting a stop to that? Who lifted a finger to help keep prayer in school? No Christians did NOTHING, and prayer was removed by a very small group of atheists.

I can still remember hiding the bible from time to time from my home room teacher.

In any case, the founders such as Jefferson was for keeping the state from promoting any or no religion and in the 1950s the courts at last woke up to that fact.

So evil atheist children or even children of other religion faiths no longer needed to drive their teachers crazy looking for the state own bible.

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Bill---- it was never the intent of the founders of our nation to keep the Bible out of our schools. It was to guarantee that no denomination (e.g. Anglican) be the established religion of the new nation. They did not want another "Church of England" to be established.
It is my understanding that the Jewish leaders in America were assuro of their right to freely worship as they pleased However, many times the founders referred to America as a Christian nation.

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@BillRM,

God is love. He is also Holy. He is also righteous.
You are responsible to God He is not responsible to you.
God is the Creator. You are a creation.

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@NealNealNeal,

NealNealNeal wrote:

Bill---- it was never the intent of the founders of our nation to keep the Bible out of our schools. It was to guarantee that no denomination (e.g. Anglican) be the established religion of the new nation. They did not want another "Church of England" to be established.
It is my understanding that the Jewish leaders in America were assuro of their right to freely worship as they pleased However, many times the founders referred to America as a Christian nation.

Sorry it not that simple as Jefferson took the bible for example an edit all the supernatural elements out of it. You can download a copy from the net by the title Jefferson Bible

Next Paine while waiting in a French jail cell for his possible hanging wrote the a book by the title The Age of Reason attacking the bible in great detail. You can also download that book off the net.

Many of the other founders have a very very low opinion of religion an priests of any kind.

Love how you seems to wish to shove one type of religion down the public throat by trying to indoctrinated the children in public schools with public funds

Bet you would be outrage if instead of the Christian bible it was Quran being read to the school children or any of the other nonsense religion works that mankind had dream up over the ages.

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@NealNealNeal,

So his drowning of most of mankind an most of the animal life is an example of a loving and caring god?

The god in the bible is evil in any human terms an adding later on a buffer by the name of Jesus does not change that evilness.

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@NealNealNeal,

Here is an indication that many of the early founders would not had wish to shoved Christianity down the people throat.

Quote:

Treaty of Tripoli 1797

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

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The Treaty of Tripoli was one of several Barbary Treaties. There is a great deal of controversy over Article 11 of this particular Treaty. It is not even in the Arabic text
Such phrases as "In the name of Almighty God..." are in the Barbary Treaties. Adams was a devout Christian. The founders were overwhelmingly devoted Christians.
There were exceptions. Jefferson was a Deist. However, the concern was not making any denomination the official religion. It was not separating the nation from the Bible.

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By the way, I have sympathy with your desire that Christians not "shove their religion down people's throat".

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@NealNealNeal,

NealNealNeal wrote:

By the way, I have sympathy with your desire that Christians not "shove their religion down people's throat".

Ok, so you hate a culture and wish it would go away. That would be the same whether it was Christianity or Rap music or Hula dancing that you hated.

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@NealNealNeal,

Where should I begin any number of the major founding fathers was not Christians.

Let see beside the two I had already name Franklin come to mind as while he was a supporter of both Christian churches and Jewish temples he by his own writings he was at most a deist IE

Quote:

belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind.

Same with Madison no personal god such as the Christian god as written in the Bible.

Now forcing young children to be subjects to the reading of one religion book IE the Bible by the state is wrong an I would think you would need to look long an hard for major founders who would agree to such force religion indoctrination of the young by the state as was try on me and my age cohorts

Oh also on the whole by their own writing most of them had very little respect for the religion leaders of their times.

Quote:

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

Always love how many Christians will cheerful lied concerning history. I started calling it lying for Jesus,

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How can a good God allow suffering

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