@HabibUrrehman,
HabibUrrehman wrote:
I believe in the stories of Adam & Eve, Job, Moses (peace be upon them all)and stories of all other prophets as told in Quran. These stories are also told in Bible and I disagree with those stories. Muslims and Christians normally don't discuss these differences because our focus in always on Jesus PBUH. But let me present the story of Job for example as told in Bible and in Quran and then I will explain the difference.
Why would you disagree with Bible stories that correspond with stories you believe in? Often times, different cultural sources harken to other stories, which helps keep culture alive that might otherwise get lost/buried through time.
If you value the story of Job in the Quran, for example, be glad the Bible contains that story so that people familiar with the Bible are able to read the Quran regarding Job without starting from scratch. Someone who has never studied a religious/cultural story has to overcome total ignorance of the story/characters in order to begin to grasp the spiritual/moral lesson being conveyed. Have you ever read the Baghavad Gita, for example? Probably not, since you would consider it polytheist and thus satanic, but even though polytheism fails to grasp the fundamental unity of all of the creation under a single God, the people who wrote those stories did possess certain wisdom, which they hoped to convey beyond themselves, and if their wisdom and intent were true and righteous, their stories are worth understanding, albeit not for the sake of promoting polytheism.
Generally what I am trying to explain to you is that God works in mysterious ways, and sometimes things or texts that are bad in one way can nevertheless plant seeds of goodness in other ways. It doesn't mean we should worship evil in its own right, but that we should be aware that God's will transcends evil and that bad things sometimes, if not always, give way to goodness; like Noah's storm/flood that gave way to the rainbow of forgiveness and the cleansed world that Noah's descendants repopulated.
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The Bible goes on to tell us that God eventually intervenes and Job repents from his sins. He is forgiven by God and has his full health restored. Now, the way that the story unfolds is highly problematic for a number of reasons.
First, the Bible describes Job as a righteous man, that he is “blameless and upright”. Now, it’s very easy to be happy with God when times are good. True piety, however, is being happy with God when one has nothing. Showing gratitude to God and remaining steadfast in the face of trials is a sign of strong faith. So, from this point of view, hasn’t Satan effectively “one-upped” God – Satan challenged God when he predicted that Job would curse God, and so haven’t Job’s blasphemies proven Satan to be correct?
Job ultimately repented and became blessed. What is the problem? That Satan "one-upped" God? Isn't that Satan's primary purpose/intent: to challenge God's ultimate authority and attempt to gain worship by tempting people into denying God?
Quote:Secondly, how is it that the young man Elihu, who, unlike Job, is not a Prophet, demonstrates more wisdom in religious matters than a Prophet of God? Recall that the Bible stated that there was “no one on earth” like Job, yet this young man seems to possess more insight into Job’s situation than Job himself.
I don't understand the relevance of these status concerns over who is a prophet and who isn't, who is superior and who is inferior. The story is about Job's struggle to deal with curses of Satan, his ultimate triumph in repenting to God and not cursing Him, and the blessings that come as a result of staying true to God in times of suffering.
Quote:The Qur’an resolves all of these inconsistencies and issues in just a few short verses. Rather than complaining about his situation to other people, Job calls on God for help. Notice that Job doesn’t blaspheme against God; rather, he blames Satan for his hardship:
The Bible version demonstrates how to repent for blasphemy and receive mercy. I don't want to debate about one version or another of the same story being better or worse, because that is just status competition, which brings with it temptation to enmity. The right thing to do with different versions of a story is to look for value in each version, because any seed of goodness planted anywhere should be honored as part of God's overall good will.
Quote:We can conclude that both the Quran and the Bible define Prophets as those who were sent in order to bring mankind closer to God. Both the Quran and the Bible paint a very noble, honorable picture of the concept of Prophethood. So, we should expect God’s Prophets to embody these ideals by being the best people in character, with their behavior and lives representing a practical example for us to follow in order to come closer to God.
Of course, but growing in holiness requires observation of virtue as well as sin. We are not supposed to judge sin but to learn from it, rebuke it, and seek deliverance/transcendence of it with God's help.
Evaluating who is a better or worse prophet/saint/etc. only causes strife. Better to evaluate what is sin and what is virtue and why and discipline oneself and others in the gentlest manner possible to achieve progress toward virtue/sanctification. No one's faults should be condemned, even if they attempt prophecy or other righteousness. Only blasphemy of Holy Spirit is worthy of judgment, i.e. because in that case people are intentionally subverting the will to righteousness. Honest mistakes are forgivable; unlike willful subversion of holiness/Holy Spirit.
Judging honest mistakes would be like having a guide who honestly believes they're going in the right direction and is trying to help people by guiding them, but ultimately makes mistakes and/or isn't fully aware of the right path to take. That is different than an evil person who pretends to be a guide in order to mislead people for the sake of causing detriment. When your heart is evil, that is different than when you have a good heart but get confused, misled, or otherwise make mistakes in attempting to do right.
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This has been a long response I guess to your question but hope it helps to see my point. There may be some truth in Bible but if there is so much corruption from humans to fulfill their material goals then one can't distinguish what is right and what is wrong. This corruption has led you to believe in triune God, even though you say you believe in one God but you worship Jesus who is creation of God not god. You sai Jesus, Holy spirit and God are in perfect harmony but your own bible tells us that they are not in harmony. Jesus did not want to die but God still wanted him to die? Thats not harmony.
I've responded to your critiques of the Holy Trinity but you won't listen, so there's no point in further trying to convince you that your critiques are not valid, imo. If you are right and I am just stubbornly misguided and brainwashed, I look forward to the moment of revelation God surely has in store for me at some future time, but for now I guess we just have to agree to disagree. Still, thank you for sharing your POV as it may help me in some way I can't yet foresee.
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Now you may ask what is source of my knowledge and how authentic that source is. If you have been reading my previous posts then it should be clear that my source of knowledge is Quran. A book which has been preserved for over 1400 years and does not go against any established scientific facts. I emphasize on established scientific facts and not on theories because scientific theories keep changing until theories are proven to be fact with scientific methodology. Quran not only agrees with established scientific facts, it's prophecies has been proven to be right so far. I did not find any error in the description of historical events in Quran either. More importantly, Quran does not contradict its teachings. Muslims believe in one God and that's the message you will find throughout the Quran. There is no ambiguity on the basic theology. Once I know that Quran is 100% correct and preserved, then I believe in everything stated inside the Quran. This includes to believe in Allah and all prophets including Jesus PBUH. This includes to believe that Jesus was not crucified and Allah took him up alive.
Unfortunately, there are some people who claim that OT stories like the creation story in Genesis and Noah's Flood defy science. I think this is a matter of misinterpreting the stories at a level they were not meant to describe, but of course that won't stop people who want to subvert religious faith from making their perverse cases.
Still, I will keep in mind what you have said about the Quran here and I will continue studying it from time to time, when I feel the calling to do so. Thank you for your posts. I don't think a devout Muslim has posted in this forum before, that I can remember, or if they have they haven't done so with so much to say, so I hope you continue to post here.
Blessings.
Quote:I request you to read Quran at your own and I am sure it will help you to see the truth. In the end I want to state again that my intention is not to spread hate or create divisions. If you choose to believe in Jesus then that's your choice and you are responsible for your actions. My goal is only to convey the message. You are free t accept or reject it. No matter what you do, you are still my brother in humanity and I have no right to hate you just because you made a choice different than mine.
Even if I found myself in doubt about the crucifixion and resurrection, I would feel blasphemous for rejecting what I have experienced directly as spiritual/moral guidance through Holy Spirit. I also have noticed there is a widespread culture that aims to subvert Christian beliefs in various ways, so I would not be able to distinguish your critiques from others' whose goal is only to undermine faith and spiritual blessings, such as salvation and connection with Holy Spirit. As such, I have to continue to praise and recommend Christian belief, including study of the crucifixion/resurrection because, as the Bible says, it is 'good news of God/holiness,' which should be spread. I cannot belief that any true follower of God would judge me or anyone else for adhering to what we've received through Holy Spirit. Of course God allows us to be tested by satan, as in the story of Job, however, so we can't expect to be immune from attacks and we have to 'bear our crosses,' as the expression goes. It is sad that not everyone can find peace in God immediately, but at least we can maintain faith in paradise eventually, if we remain steadfast.
