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How can a good God allow suffering

 
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2016 05:25 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Let me see if I can guess krumple's answer.

Those rewards and punishments are all coincidences. Unless you beat your head on the wall, that's just 'God the universe' punishing you.

It's like everything else, love, compassion, etc. it's all your imagination.

How'd I do krump?


The only reward or punishment we can determine is granted by us to others. Some escape either reward or punishment. Some are falsely accused of acts they never committed. Yet there are others who recieve rewards and commit hidden crimes that go unpunished.

There is no god involved in the balance of rewards or punishments. If you want to claim punishments or rewards are given after this life ends, they become meaningless in this life.

Take for example a thug kid who gang bangs, killing rival gang members and a few innocent people who got caught in the crossfire. He owns and drives a same year BMW but has never had a job. Dropped out of ninth grade and can barely spell.

If he gets punished in the after life it does nothing to balance this one. Its not like he can learn from any mistakes. Hell given the christian dogma all he needs to do is be a believer and he will be rewarded regardless of how much of an asshole he was in life.

So punishments and rewards come down to luck and how insistent people around you want to give you what they collectively think you deserve.
0 Replies
 
CrisTianUk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2016 06:13 pm
@SawyerMentink,
Because men did not respect God covenant in the beginning.
God has wrath and punish up to 3th or 4th generations.
Life is designed by God, people should stop moaning and praise hes Glory instead.
People praise neither " the universe was made by it self" neither "God" neither their own life the way it is but they love to praise their own Evil mind.
If there is suffering is there for a reason otherwise God wouldn create it.
0 Replies
 
CrisTianUk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2016 06:18 pm
@Setanta,
is that the devil speaking behind you Smile
0 Replies
 
Cy Fi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 02:16 am
@SawyerMentink,
To make everything, God had to first come up with the concept, then with the outcome, then to start building these things bit by bit. Doing so, eliminates the entire element of predictability, thus making them of no meaning to God. Everything, except sufferings. Sufferings, whether physical or emotional are such that they are of meaning to God, even if he had to make them piece by piece and bit by bit. And, that is why sufferings exist.
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 02:21 am
@Cy Fi,
Sorry Cy, I am not sure I follow my friend, could you explain in a bit more detail?
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 04:43 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:

bbraaksma wrote:


What has led you to believe this, though?

He's a bloody ruffian, to take away little Willie Dignam, for one.


Also this
http://pzzzz.tripod.com/I/child1.jpg
0 Replies
 
Cy Fi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 06:32 am
@SawyerMentink,
God does not "allow" suffering. He has MADE the sufferings!
Cy Fi
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 07:01 am
@Smileyrius,
We did not exist, and obviously everything is made by God, whether it is joys or sufferings. Here an example of creating laughter: To come up with the concept (making us to finding something funny inside our brain), then making the outcome (sending an impulse to the jaws causing laughter), and then to make these elements bit by bit and piece by piece, they eliminate all the elements of unpredictability for Him, thus making these things of meaning only to US. However, when He was, for example, making diseases causing physical pain, although He still had to design the concept (a disease) and the outcome (feeling of physical pain), these ARE of meaning to Him. After all, it is causing hardship to the recipient. (I know, a bit difficult of a subject, requires some contemplating!)
auroreII
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 10:36 pm
@Cy Fi,
You say God has made the sufferings? Well I guess I can think of some examples but I'd be interested to hear what you think and why you say that.
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Oct, 2016 02:03 am
@Cy Fi,
I always assumed that death and pain were mostly caused by something not working as it should do, are you sure that it was meant to work the way it is? Revelations 21:3 and 4 suggests that suffering and death are supposed to be done away with at some point.
Cy Fi
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Oct, 2016 03:55 am
@auroreII,
If this were a world free of natural disasters like earthquake and tsunami, then one could really doubt if diseases were meant by God to exist or not. In reality, natural disasters take the same toll on humans as diseases do, and both in an equal ratio one could call "maximum possible." Two things, diseases and natural disasters, that have absolutely no relation to each other are causing the same toll on humans. Hardly coincidental!
Cy Fi
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Oct, 2016 04:06 am
@auroreII,
More important than "why" God made the suffering, is that He MADE the sufferings. "Why's" are His business, and as the recipients of sufferings, human concern is that He made them.
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Oct, 2016 05:25 am
@Cy Fi,
I appreciate your sentiment, the question I would ask is whether the earth also is as it was created. See, I see the whole matter this way.

God made Earth, God made Man to tend the Earth, Man rebelled against God, God stepped back and let things occur without his hand in it, in order that man may exercise his charge that Man does not need God..

The Earth and Man have currently been left untended for a long time, supported in little by God outside of a long term restoration plan. This is why neither man nor the earth operate as they should, suffering is a breaking down of the body, natural disasters are caused by a breaking down of nature, the earth and its atmosphere.

So if death is to be done away with, then the breaking down of the body must also, Jesus supposed life for instance showed that he had power over sickness, death and the elements. If of course the story were to be believed. In the Eden story, so it was told, there was a tree from which if Adam were to eat, he would not die. If this was the case, then Gods plan for Adam would not have involved death.

Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Oct, 2016 05:54 am
@Smileyrius,
Quote:
Revelations 21:3 and 4 suggests that suffering and death are supposed to be done away with at some point.

(Emphasis mine.)


I'm curious about why you think the original plan went wrong. Was it a flaw in humans, in the plan, or evil external influence?

Do you think it's possible that everything that has happened was part of the original plan?
peacecrusader888
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Oct, 2016 11:17 pm
The true God allows suffering to correct us, His creation. God has been watching us. Now we will suffer more often because this is the end time. God is reducing people on this earth. There will only be very few people on earth come the year 2200 when those taken from earth will be returned to earth (Revelation 14:3).
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Sat 29 Oct, 2016 11:53 pm
Not that I've read a bit of this thread, but this question seems to relate to the question "If God knows everything, then he must have known that Adam and Eve would fall. Why then did he create Adam and Eve?"

The only answer other than 'He wanted to create something that would fall' is 'He gave them free will, and if he didn't allow them free will to fall, then he didn't give them free will"

In terms of suffering caused by violence, the same answer would have to apply. If he did anything directly to stop the suffering, then he would be removing free will.

Funnily enough, if you dealt with allowing suffering caused by disease...then the ultimate logic of that, must support evolution. After all, God didn't create disease in paradise, so how did the contagions come into existence? How did they become created? How did they evolve to often target only specific animals? Even cancer supports evolution (because they didn't exist in paradise, and anything that has mutated away from the original, is a form of evolution)...all that is of course irrespective of the evolutionary V paradise born animals with claws and teeth designed for rendering other animals.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2016 05:11 am
Why do people blame God for everything considering Satan was a nasty piece of work?
Jesus said "Satan has bound this crippled woman for eighteen years" (Luke 13:16), then he cured her..Smile

0 Replies
 
peacecrusader888
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2016 05:48 am
@vikorr,
@vikorr
Do you know Adam and Eve? Do you know why God gave man the freewill to choose between good and evil? If you want to be evil, it will come from you. If you want to be healed, it will come from you. (Kung ibig mong sumama, sa iyo magmumula. Kung ibig mong gumaling, sa iyo manggagaling,)
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2016 07:36 am
@peacecrusader888,
Evolution, dude. Your statements are moot, dude. Or dudette.
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2016 06:57 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
Revelations 21:3 and 4 suggests that suffering and death are supposed to be done away with at some point.

(Emphasis mine.)


I'm curious about why you think the original plan went wrong. Was it a flaw in humans, in the plan, or evil external influence?

Do you think it's possible that everything that has happened was part of the original plan?


I don’t know if God had a plan for man as much as he had a purpose. Plans go wrong, but a purpose can take multiple routes to the same destination.

There are many things that lead me to believe we are on a detour from Gods intended purpose, and that this was not planned. I’ll raise just one as a ponderer.

Why did God feel regret before the flood?
 

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