Is the mind the same as the brain, or do we have souls?

@Fil Albuquerque,

"Attach" is a two-way concept by definition, so there is no difference between "self attached to experiencing" and "experiencing attached to self". Borrom line is you can't have one without the other.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

The idea is that something proceeds from "it" and not that self rises the experiencing. If you want "self" is an emergent property of the experiencing in permanent flux.

The "reality" of consciousness is the "world"...the "world" doesn't proceed from the reality of consciousness...and yes this all relates to the old argument on "free will"...

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@TomTomBinks,

Very well said Tom! Smile

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@Leadfoot,

Good point! Smile

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@fresco,

Wow fresco. You really are a deep thinker! Smile

Which I mean in a good way, of course. Your ideals are quite thought provoking.

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@fresco,

Quote:

I do not intend to elaborate here on the specific scientific follies of reductionist materialism and its failure in the field of AI, since this thread is ostensibly about the religious aspects of 'self identity'. Neither of us, I suggest, has anything useful to say about that.

This thread is ostensibly about the religious aspects of 'self identity'? How so? It's not tagged as a religious thread, or hasn't been yet anyway... Lol Nor did I see the author refer to anything concerning religion in the asking of this question.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

That sounded quite confused...

I'm wondering now... Is there any point to the negation of the self? Why do so many A2Kers try and critique the idea? What's the use? You may have noted that when you replaced personal pronouns by "it", you actually loses worthwhile information about WHO is saying WHAT... That's a very important thing to keep track of, if only to have a structured debate. Personal pronouns, based on the idea of selves, can thus help us understand and improve the world. But what is the utility of the opposite approach?

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@onevoice,

Any mention of 'soul' surely implies 'identity which survives death'. All speculation about that can be deemed 'religious' as opposed to say 'scientific' , provided we exclude 'the paranormal' from what we call 'science'. Note too that even the word 'mind' can have religious connotations if we explore that particular aspect of it which we call 'free will'.

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@fresco,

Thank you Fresco! Again a very thought provoking perspective! So now, please let me go think about it a little because I see a lot in what you said. I would like to take some time to put it together. Perhaps, I will go take the dogs for a walk and get some fresh air. Smile

Ta ta for now!

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@fresco,

fresco wrote:

Any mention of 'soul' surely implies 'identity which survives death. . .

Purely speculation on your part, having bought into the popular lie. The Hebrew word nephesh translated soul literally means breather. Thus, even animals are souls. I don't know of any dead thing that breathes.

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@neologist,

Quote:

fresco wrote:
"Any mention of 'soul' surely implies 'identity which survives death. . . "

Purely speculation on your part, having bought into the popular lie.

So what is your nomenclature for that which survives death?

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@neologist,

Somewhat simplistic semantic juggling going on here ! The use of the word 'lie' merely indicates a somewhat pedantic and parochial view of 'truth' .

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

So what is your nomenclature for that which survives death?

Nothing survives death, save our assurance that God will remember the least of us, including those who never knew him in the resurrection. (John 5:28,29)

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@fresco,

Quote:

Any mention of 'soul' surely implies 'identity which survives death'.

How so?

To me "identity which survives death", at the initial reading of that statement, implied leaving your mark on this world... leaving a footprint of sorts to say, " I was here", or finally my favorite one of all... the legacy we leave behind. Smile

That's it for now. I need more time to roll the rest of that around in my brain a little more.

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@fresco,

fresco wrote:

Somewhat simplistic semantic juggling going on here ! The use of the word 'lie' merely indicates a somewhat pedantic and parochial view of 'truth' .

Many religious folks would certainly agree with you. Nevertheless, the concept of an immortal soul is a complete falsehood.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

fresco wrote:
Any mention of 'soul' surely implies 'identity which survives death. . .
Purely speculation on your part, having bought into the popular lie. The Hebrew word nephesh translated soul literally means breather. Thus, even animals are souls. I don't know of any dead thing that breathes.

Nephesh is also the breath, ghost or life itself that can be given up, e.g. Jeremiah 15:9, or left in the netherworld, e.g. Psalm 16:10.

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neologist wrote:

Leadfoot wrote:
So what is your nomenclature for that which survives death?
Nothing survives death, save our assurance that God will remember the least of us, including those who never knew him in the resurrection. (John 5:28,29)

This assertion is contradicted by various other passages in the Bible.

neologist wrote:

fresco wrote:
Somewhat simplistic semantic juggling going on here ! The use of the word 'lie' merely indicates a somewhat pedantic and parochial view of 'truth' .
Many religious folks would certainly agree with you. Nevertheless, the concept of an immortal soul is a complete falsehood.

That assertion is not supported by the Bible.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

. . . This assertion is contradicted by various other passages in the Bible. . .

Such as ? ? ?
Or, did you mean this?

Quote:

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. (Ezekiel 18:20)

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At this point I repeat that only 'the religious' have anything to say about the status of 'souls', and only to each other !
...Except perhaps I should add today that a concept of 'soul' is directly responsible for some religious atrocities... Sad

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@fresco,

Soooo, you fault the concept ? K...

1 Reply

Is the mind the same as the brain, or do we have souls?

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