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The Brain does not generate the mind; scientific proof

 
 
mmarco
 
Sun 30 Jul, 2023 04:31 am
I am a physicist and I will explain why our scientific knowledge refutes the idea that consciousness is generated by the brain and that the origin of our mental experiences is physical/biological.
My argument proves that brain processes are not a sufficient condition for the existence of consciousness, which existence implies the existence in us of an indivisible unphysical element, which is usually called soul or spirit.

Preliminary considerations: the concept of set refers to something that has an intrinsically conceptual and subjective nature and implies the arbitrary choice of determining which elements are to be included in the set; what exists objectively are only the single elements (where one person sees a set of elements, another person can only see elements that are not related to each other in their individuality). In fact, when we define a set, it is like drawing an imaginary line that separates some elements from all the other elements; obviously this imaginary line does not exist physically, independently of our mind, and therefore any set is just an abstract idea, and not a physical entity and so are all its properties. Similar considerations can be made for a sequence of elementary processes; sequence is a subjective and abstract concept.

Consciousness is a precondition for the existence of subjectivity/arbitrariness and abstractions, therefore consciousness cannot itself be an abstract concept. (Obviously we can conceive the concept of consciousness, but the concept of consciousness is not actual consciousness)
(With the word consciousness I do not refer to self-awareness, but to the property of being conscious= having a mental experiences such as sensations, emotions, thoughts, memories and even dreams).

From the above considerations it followes that only indivisible elements may exist objectively and independently of consciousness, and consequently consciousness can exist only as a property of an indivisible element. Furthermore, this indivisible entity must interact globally with brain processes because we know that there is a correlation between brain processes and consciousness. This indivisible entity is not physical, since according to the laws of physics, there is no physical entity with such properties; therefore this indivisible entity corresponds to what is traditionally called soul or spirit. The soul is the missing element that interprets globally the distinct elementary physical processes occurring at separate points in the brain as a unified mental experience.

Some clarifications (in my youtube channel you can find a video with more details)

The "brain" doesn't objectively and physically exist as a single entity and the entity “brain” is only a conceptual model. We create the concept of the brain by arbitrarily "separating" it from everything else and by arbitrarily considering a bunch of quantum particles altogether as a whole; this separation is not done on the basis of the laws of physics, but using addictional arbitrary criteria, independent of the laws of physics.
Furthermore, brain processes consist of many parallel sequences of ordinary elementary physical processes. There is no direct connection between the separate points in the brain and such connections are just a conceptual model used to approximately describe sequences of many distinct physical processes; interpreting these sequences as a unitary process or connection is an arbitrary act and such connections exist only in our imagination and not in physical reality. Indeed, considering consciousness as a property of an entire sequence of elementary processes implies the arbitrary definition of the entire sequence; the entire sequence as a whole is an arbitrary abstract idea, and not to an actual physical entity.

Physicalism/naturalism is based on the belief that consciousness is an emergent property of the brain. However, an emergent property is defined as a property that is possessed by a set of elements that its individual components do not possess; my arguments prove that this definition implies that emergent properties are only subjective abstract concepts and therefore, cosnciousness cannot be an emergent property.
Actually, all the alleged emergent properties are just simplified and approximate descriptions or subjective/arbitrary classifications of underlying physical processes or properties, which are described directly by the fundamental laws of physics alone, without involving any emergent properties (arbitrariness/subjectivity is involved when more than one option is possible; in this case, more than one possible description). An approximate description is only an abstract idea, and no actual entity exists per se corresponding to that approximate description, simply because an actual entity is exactly what it is and not an approximation of itself. What physically exists are the underlying physical processes and not the emergent properties (=subjective classifications or approximate descriptions). This means that emergent properties do not refer to reality itself but to an arbitrary abstract concept (the approximate conceptual model of reality).

In other words, emergence is nothing but a cognitive construct that is applied onto matter for taxonomy purposes, and cognition itself can only come from a conscious mind; so emergence can never explain consciousness as it is, in itself, implied by consciousness. On a fundamental material level, there is no brain, or heart, or any higher level groups or sets, but just fundamental particles interacting.


Marco Biagini
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Type: Discussion • Score: 5 • Views: 3,659 • Replies: 54
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fobvius
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jul, 2023 08:46 am
@mmarco,
You are on record.

Quote:
14-Do you think there is scientific or at least rational arguments for God's existence? Can you share with us the best ones?

As I have said, I think that the strongest rational argument for God's existence is the mathematical representability of the natural laws. I think that also the unphysical nature of consciousness is a strong rational argument for God's existence; unless you believe that your soul has always existed (in this case you would consider yourself a kind of god), you can define God as the necessary cause of the existence of your own soul.



Let's cut to the chase:

You contend that a brain is insufficient for consciousness because a soul is required and only the imaginary super being hands them out.





mmarco
 
  -3  
Sun 30 Jul, 2023 03:04 pm
@fobvius,
Let's cut to the chase.

I provided some rational arguments and you have totally ignored them because you are unable to refute them.
fobvius
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jul, 2023 06:52 pm
@mmarco,
A salmagundi of pseudo-scientific psychobabble and disingenuous dialectic is not a rational treatise.

It's a non sequitur to aver that a soul/god is an imperative concomitant of consciousness because the brain is bereft of this ability.
laughoutlood
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jul, 2023 07:00 pm
@mmarco,
I am I said
A physicist
But no-one heard at all
Not even the brain

Because there is no god

mmarco
 
  -3  
Mon 31 Jul, 2023 02:54 am
@fobvius,
Claiming that my arguments are "a salmagundi of pseudo-scientific psychobabble " without analyzing them is tantamount to acknowledging that you are unable to refute them.

Best regards.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Mon 31 Jul, 2023 04:53 am
@mmarco,
mmarco wrote:

Let's cut to the chase.

I provided some rational arguments and you have totally ignored them because you are unable to refute them.


You posted your "rational arguments" here rather than in a more sophisticated peer-review publication...seemingly because you had a better chance at finding people unqualified to "refute" that stuff.

If you had any confidence in the strength of your arguments...you would not have chosen this site for peer review.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 31 Jul, 2023 04:54 am
@mmarco,
mmarco wrote:

Claiming that my arguments are "a salmagundi of pseudo-scientific psychobabble " without analyzing them is tantamount to acknowledging that you are unable to refute them.

Best regards.


Same thing here.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 31 Jul, 2023 04:56 am
@laughoutlood,
laughoutlood wrote:

I am I said
A physicist
But no-one heard at all
Not even the brain



[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxDyXK93o6g[/youtube]


I am I said is one of my favorite pop songs.

Quote:
Because there is no god.


That is as much a blind guess as "There is a God."
0 Replies
 
mmarco
 
  -2  
Mon 31 Jul, 2023 06:26 am
@Frank Apisa,
I haven't posted my arguments here for peer review, but because I thought there might be some smart people who might be interested in discussing them

Maybe I was wrong.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Mon 31 Jul, 2023 06:41 am
@mmarco,
mmarco wrote:

I haven't posted my arguments here for peer review, but because I thought there might be some smart people who might be interested in discussing them

Maybe I was wrong.


Maybe you are kidding yourself about why you posted here.

There are MANY very intelligent people here, but no reasonable physicist would post an argument about quantum theory HERE expecting reasonable discussion.

Go in peace.
mmarco
 
  -3  
Mon 31 Jul, 2023 09:02 am
@Frank Apisa,
If you had read my post, you would have understood that my argument is not about quantum theory, and my argument can be perfectly understood by anyone who knows nothing about quantum theory.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Mon 31 Jul, 2023 09:08 am
What manner 'o thing is your crocodile?

Lepidus, from Anthony and Cleopatra by WS.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Mon 31 Jul, 2023 09:25 am
@mmarco,
mmarco wrote:

If you had read my post, you would have understood that my argument is not about quantum theory, and my argument can be perfectly understood by anyone who knows nothing about quantum theory.


If you had understood my post...I was not really talking about quantum theory, but rather about esoteric themes.

Since you are not here for peer review...why did you mention to Fobvius that he was not able to refute your "arguments?"
mmarco
 
  -3  
Mon 31 Jul, 2023 09:27 am
@Frank Apisa,
Because if you disagree with an argument you should try to refuse it. this is what generally happens in a forum.
hightor
 
  3  
Mon 31 Jul, 2023 10:43 am
@mmarco,
I've come across ideas very similar to what you put forth here but without positing anything like "soul" or "spirit". I'm going to see if I can locate the source.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Mon 31 Jul, 2023 11:14 am
@mmarco,
I think everybody has refused it.

As far as refuting goes, refute what?

You've written eight paragraphs and only two of them are about the topic.

It's your opinion, that's all it is.

There's no formula to refute. There's only very simplistic concepts dressed up with verbosity to the max.

You deliberately overuse polysyllabic words and phrases to confuse and obscure the fact that you've not really got anything at all, just an idea, and a very simple one at that.

People who have something of value to say try to say things as plainly and as simply as possible.

That way you can get a response straight away instead of waiting for them to untangle your sentence to see what you're actually saying.
mmarco
 
  -3  
Mon 31 Jul, 2023 11:50 am
@izzythepush,
To refute an argument means to analyze it and find some logical fallacies. No one has done anything like that.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Mon 31 Jul, 2023 12:03 pm
@mmarco,
There's nothing to analyse.

You'd need a bit more for analysis to be needed.

In the same way you don't need to analyse hydrogen because it's just hydrogen, it's not George's Marvellous bloody Medicine.
mmarco
 
  -3  
Mon 31 Jul, 2023 12:07 pm
@izzythepush,
To say that there is nothing to analyze simply proves that you are unable to refute my argument. Best regards.
 

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