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Is the mind the same as the brain, or do we have souls?

 
 
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2016 12:39 pm
Is the mind the same as the brain, or do we have souls?
 
mark noble
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2016 12:49 pm
@imanfattima,
Good question.
When the tv-set breaks/dies/no longer works - does the tv-signal stop transmitting?
'Graham Hancock' youtube.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2016 02:51 pm
Try asking Fresco !
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dalehileman
 
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Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2016 03:41 pm
@imanfattima,
Iman, let's suppose your soul is everything about you except your body
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TomTomBinks
 
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Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2016 10:53 pm
@imanfattima,
The brain is the mushy bit inside your skull. I would say that "mind" and "soul" were two words for the same thing, however those words are not used interchangeably. If you leave out the religious aspect of "soul", you could say that your mind is your consciousness and your soul is those aspects of your mind which make you unique; what make you "tick".
fresco
 
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Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2016 01:35 am
@imanfattima,
At Fil's suggestion, my answer is "no" ! Smile
Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2016 07:27 am
@fresco,
There there an axiom finally ! Wink
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Briancrc
 
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Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2016 08:20 am
@imanfattima,
If mind and brain are the same thing, then why use different labels? The organ found in the cranium is called the brain. The concept of a soul can be a comfort for people facing death, but should we believe in things based on how the idea makes one feel? Perhaps it's comforting to believe in spirits, angels, or fairy God mothers too.
Leadfoot
 
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Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2016 01:54 pm
@Briancrc,
Quote:
If mind and brain are the same thing, then why use different labels?

I tend to think of mind as the combination of the brain plus its accumulated software/algorithms developed during life. The brain is just hardware.
fresco
 
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Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2016 01:58 am
@Briancrc,
Ah...there speaks the materialist/determinist !
Pragmatists would say 'truth is what it is good to believe'. The fact that you are apparently operating at the transcendent level of human value judgments should give you some indication of the shortcomings of your determinist axioms. I recommend Gilbert Ryle's analogy of 'mind' with 'the university' given as the rejection of the Oxford tourist's question..'where is the university ?'
Briancrc
 
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Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2016 04:17 am
@fresco,
Irrespective of anything being transcended, the question is if the two (mind and brain) are one and the same. If they are the same, then why use two labels?
Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2016 05:28 am
@fresco,
You use to say Truth is what works...I noticed you have now improved on it...you still dodge the order, the patterns, and the ratios, in the world we experience...I honestly wish you spare some lines to address them properly without baloney pot shots. Perhaps to much to ask from someone so ingrained in a current of thought as you are.
Miss L Toad
 
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Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2016 05:59 am
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
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Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2016 09:39 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
To be specific the 'refinement' was Rorty's not mine. Obviously 'what works' and 'good' have a great deal of overlap.
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fresco
 
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Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2016 09:53 am
@Briancrc,
You clearly don't get Ryle's point. The concept we call 'mind' may require a concept of 'brain' as a necessary structure but 'brain' may not sufficient to account for it. The analogy is that nobody can 'point to the university' when looking at the buildings in Oxford (perhaps unlike in other cities), but nor can the concept of 'university' in general be divorced from its functional place in 'the academic world' in general.
Briancrc
 
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Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2016 12:36 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
The concept we call 'mind' may require a concept of 'brain' as a necessary structure but 'brain' may not sufficient to account for it.


Certainly mind is used to describe something other than the brain organ.

Quote:
The analogy is that nobody can 'point to the university' when looking at the buildings in Oxford (perhaps unlike in other cities), but nor can the concept of 'university' in general be divorced from its functional place in 'the academic world' in general


The fundamental flaw in the analogy is that, with the university, one can locate and identify all the constituent parts. "Mind," however, is some epiphenomenon or metaphysical part, although somewhat comfortably discussed in philosophical circles, leaves much to be desired by us lowly materialists. I know that philosophy is within your comfort zone, so have at it. However, from a linguistic or pragmatic POV, wouldn't it be fine to say that mind and brain related but different?...Just to answer the question that was asked?
fresco
 
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Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2016 01:22 pm
@Briancrc,
You've missed the main point that the 'meaning' of the word 'university' is embedded in a transcendent discourse network about 'education' which is required to give meaning to any constituent parts of a university.

But I make two final points philosophical points.
1 Any two items are trivially both 'similar' and 'different'. They are similar in that they are objects of a comparison, and different because there are two of them.
2. The fact that we have separate words, 'mind' and 'brain' used in different discourse contexts, implies they are not isomorphic.

I do not intend to elaborate here on the specific scientific follies of reductionist materialism and its failure in the field of AI, since this thread is ostensibly about the religious aspects of 'self identity'. Neither of us, I suggest, has anything useful to say about that.
InfraBlue
 
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Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2016 03:38 pm
@imanfattima,
imanfattima wrote:

Is the mind the same as the brain, or do we have souls?

This is a false dichotomy. Whether the mind is the same as the brain is one thing that isn't necessarily negated by the question of whether we have souls.
neologist
 
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Reply Wed 16 Mar, 2016 12:41 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
This is a false dichotomy. Whether the mind is the same as the brain is one thing that isn't necessarily negated by the question of whether we have souls.
Sounds reasonable. I guess most folks would say our minds represent some activity within our brains. But the concept of soul is independent of that connection despite having been a subject of much discussion throughout history. I would be surprised if any definition of soul has escaped mention on a2k.

Probably the most critical issue is the question of whether we have souls or simply are souls.
Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Wed 16 Mar, 2016 04:37 am
The problem of mind is as complex as wondering why spheres roll...the phenomena of rolling can be explained...there is a road and a sphere, and there is gravity and attrition...but there is no where to point where the rolling is happening... xD
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