writing ( 9 )

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...She said what it meant :"my knowledge isn't better than yours", then she thought a little, and whispered in worry:"Dr.Ismael..I'm really scared , I'm a lonely weak old woman, and there is something evil going on here". I said outragesouly:" you are not a lone, you have the major and Sandra"."They made things worse", she replied."What do you mean?", I said.

She closed the door, and like this, we were outside the house.I looked up to see that nobody was watching us, then I said to myself:" the similarity is quite the same and her information is precise, but with the long prattle, there must be some missing details which make you a bit hesitant,was it really as you thought?, or you have made some terrible confusion between things!"

Stupidly, I came to ask her:"I still don't understand!", she looked a round to make sure that nobody was listening and whispered:"those can't be Sandra and the major..those two people are playing their roles perfectly!"

questions:

1) What is the best word to use here:outrage,ire or exasperate?

2) Is the word " prattle" a good one here?

thanks

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Quote:

...She said what it meant :"my knowledge isn't better than yours",

the context before this would be helpful, because you are not starting on a complete thought.

the adjective "better" does not really apply to knowledge. if she knew more than someone else, you would say she had more knowledge, or more commonly, "she was more knowledgeable" which means the same thing.

Quote:

I said outragesouly:"

when used this way, outrageously means ridiculous. I believe you mean to say, "In an outrage, I said, ..." or "Outraged at her, I yelled ..."

Remember to stop using colons ( : ) before speech! use commas!

Quote:

She closed the door, and like this, we were outside the house.

this is awkward, the usualy way to say this is:

We stepped outside and she closed the door behind us.

1) outrage means intense anger, very angry!
exasperation means annoyed, not nearly as intense.

2) yeah its fine

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Re: writing ( 9 )
I prefer a different style in presenting dialogue (conversation) between the characters in a story.

You are presenting this excerpt out of context. Therefore, I do not know who "she" is nor do I understand the basis of the characters' conversation. I will call her "Jane."

Your sentences are too long and too awkward. You are trying to jam too much information into one sentence. Rewrite your sentences to make them concise.

Additionally, you are writing this excerpt from the first person point of view (pov) of Dr. Ismael. Accordingly, if you want to stay with that pov, you must stay in his head and write the story from his perspective--not hers.

It is easier to write in third person--so I'm switching to third person and writing from Dr. Ismael's pov.

Sample rewrite with comments in brackets:

Quote:

...She said what it meant :"my knowledge isn't better than yours", then she thought a little, and whispered in worry:"Dr.Ismael..I'm really scared , I'm a lonely weak old woman, and there is something evil going on here". I said outragesouly:" you are not a lone, you have the major and Sandra"."They made things worse", she replied."What do you mean?", I said.

"My information isn't better than yours," Jane admitted.

Despite the concession, Dr. Ismael observed the hesitant look on Jane's face. He was growing impatient in his attempts to soothe her irrational fears.

"Dr. Ismael," she whispered, "I may be a weak and scared old woman, but I'm alone and I feel that something evil is going on here."

"You are not alone," Dr. Ismael snapped, "You have Sandra and the Major."

[Punctuation should be placed inside the closing quotation mark. To answer your first question, you used the modifier "outrageously" to modify the verb "said." Avoid using a modifier when a stronger verb is available.]

"They made things worse," Jane retorted.

"What do you mean?"

Quote:

She closed the door, and like this, we were outside the house.I looked up to see that nobody was watching us, then I said to myself:" the similarity is quite the same and her information is precise, but with the long prattle, there must be some missing details which make you a bit hesitant,was it really as you thought?, or you have made some terrible confusion between things!"

[This is nearly incomprehensible. The phrase, "he similarity is quite the same" is redundant. I don't know what you mean by the "long prattle," so I am unable to help you with your second question.]

There was no immediate response to his question. Instead, Jane ushered him outside the house and closed the door. Her paranoia was becoming more troubling to him with each passing minute. He wondered if he had overlooked details that might be causing her concern. She was obviously confused.

Quote:

Stupidly, I came to ask her:"I still don't understand!", she looked a round to make sure that nobody was listening and whispered:"those can't be Sandra and the major..those two people are playing their roles perfectly!"

"I still don't understand what worries you!"

Again, Jane appeared hesitant to respond. Her eyes darted around as if in search of a pair of lurking ears. Then she whispered, "Those two people are not Sandra and the Major--whoever they are, they are trying deceive us with their roles and they have you convinced."

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I have these remarks:

1) The woman didn't know more than Dr.Ismael, that's why I wrote : my knowledge isn't better than yours.As you see,it's a translation from my first language.But , I don't know if the word better fit as Stuh said.

2) this is writing ( 9 ) and it's a series of the original story which I'm translating.

3) I thought we use colon before someone saying!

4) thank you guys Smile

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Quote:

1) The woman didn't know more than Dr.Ismael, that's why I wrote : my knowledge isn't better than yours.As you see,it's a translation from my first language.But , I don't know if the word better fit as Stuh said.

"My knowledge isn't better than yours." <---awkward

I would substitute the word "information" for the word "knowledge" in this sentence. You could also rewrite like this:

"I don't know anything more than you do, Dr. Ismael."

Quote:

2) this is writing ( 9 ) and it's a series of the original story which I'm translating.

What is the original language that you are translating? I will go back through your posts and try to start from the beginning.

Quote:

3) I thought we use colon before someone saying!

Note: The word "saying" is incorrect in the context of your last sentence. The more appropriate word is "talking."

"I thought we use colon before someone talking."

Better yet:

"I thought a colon was used to introduce dialogue."

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thanks Debra..

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Quote:

I would substitute the word "information" for the word "knowledge" in this sentence. You could also rewrite like this:

"I don't know anything more than you do, Dr. Ismael."

this is wrong

Quote:

"I thought we use colon before someone talking."

this is also wrong..

come on debra! no bad advice!

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I can't help you anymore.
Navigator:

I still believe the word "information" should be substituted for the word "knowledge" in the context in which it was used. I still believe the old lady, in her dialogue, could simply tell Dr. Ismael that she doesn't know more than he does.

I still believe that you misused the word "saying" when you meant "talking." However, I gave you an example of a better way to make your point.

And Stuh505--you have some explaining to do.

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I agree, Debra's advice seemed both polite and informative.

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Debra,

you may be older but your previous comment does not suggest that you are any more mature...

the fact is, you have suggested two sentences which are blatantly grammatically false...I cannot imagine how you could possibly think that those sentences are correct. but I would be doing navigator a disservice if i noticed them and didn't speak up, because he's trying to learn.

honestly debra, i am not very impressed with the way you handled yourself in this situation -- making a mistake is one thing, but then throwing a temper tantrum when you are corrected? get real.

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"I don't know anything more than you do, Dr. Ismael." As a translation of speech this is quite good. Yes, it is unnecessary to use the word 'do' at the end, but, never-the-less, that is the way people speak.

The word 'talking' is more appropriate than 'saying' but, as Debra pointed out, it was better to simply restructure the sentence completely.

Stuh, I happen to think that Debra's reaction was more than justified. Your criticism was abrupt and rather rude. In your own words, I am not very impressed with the way you handled yourself in this situation.

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Quote:

"I don't know anything more than you do, Dr. Ismael."

In order to make this sentence correct, it would need to be changed to:

(1) I don't know any more than you do, Dr. Ismael.

(2) I don't know about anything any more than you do, Dr. Ismael.

It is not a valid sentence in it's current form...

Quote:

"I thought we use colon before someone talking."

In order for this to be a valid sentence, it would need to be changed to:

(1) I thought a colon was used before a quote

(2) I thought we used a colon before a quote

This sentence is originally in past and present tense...

Do not mistake my bluntness for disrespect

I am just blunt and to the point in all things

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Stuh505

stuh505 wrote:

Debra,

you may be older but your previous comment does not suggest that you are any more mature...

the fact is, you have suggested two sentences which are blatantly grammatically false...I cannot imagine how you could possibly think that those sentences are correct. but I would be doing navigator a disservice if i noticed them and didn't speak up, because he's trying to learn.

honestly debra, i am not very impressed with the way you handled yourself in this situation -- making a mistake is one thing, but then throwing a temper tantrum when you are corrected? get real.

Stuh505:

You're a sophmore. You have a lot of growing up to do before you can truly perceive the meaning of maturity.

Navigator is asking for help. He was hurt because he didn't think people cared about his writing. He attempted to engage in effective communication by expressing his feelings. This is how you responded to him:

Stuh505 wrote:

Quote:

you are not being neglected and i resent your unthankful attitude, i for one have spent a few hours editing your work alone

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=837058#837058

(Why don't you check out your own sentences and count the grammatical errors.)

There was nothing blatantly wrong with any of my suggestions in this thread. You know it, but you were just being an a$$.

You obviously resented Navigator's recent post. You wanted to punish Navigator for his "unthankful attitude." You want the entire board to abandon all efforts to help him. Therefore, you were determined to attack any person who attempted to help him.

I have no desire to assist Navigator if that means that I have to get in a pissing match with you after every post. You achieved your goal. Are you a pleased with yourself?

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Fair enough, Stuh. It is easy to confuse bluntness with disrespect, especially when it is delivered in written form.

On the first point, as I said, it is a translation of speech, perhaps where you live it is more common to say 'I don't know any more...', for others it is more common to say 'I don't know anything more.'

On the second point, Debra provided a grammatically correct version of the sentence. The introduction of the word 'talking' merely pointed out that the word 'saying' was incorrect.

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I feel that this is all my fault!All I need is some help in writing assesment and I need you all.I like the way Debra handles my writing and editing it , she is really kind and good-hearted in giving others Razz

.At the same time, I need others assistance including stuh,because he helped me out in this and I can't deny this.I appreciate all of you people here and I hope I'm not making troubles.So,plz Debra I need you here and all other members. Rolling Eyes

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stuh505 wrote:

Quote:
"I don't know anything more than you do, Dr. Ismael."

In order to make this sentence correct, it would need to be changed to:

(1) I don't know any more than you do, Dr. Ismael.

(2) I don't know about anything any more than you do, Dr. Ismael.

It is not a valid sentence in it's current form...

Stuh505: You ridicule me and declare that I am blatantly wrong for using the word "anything" instead of "any?" Please provide a link to some grammar rule that substantiates your claim.

If we follow your assessment of "validity," then which of the following is correct:

I don't know what? I don't know any. (or) I don't know anything.

You can use the word "any" if you want to. I will stick with the word "anything."

stuh505 wrote:

Quote:
"I thought we use colon before someone talking."

In order for this to be a valid sentence, it would need to be changed to:

(1) I thought a colon was used before a quote

(2) I thought we used a colon before a quote

This sentence is originally in past and present tense...

Stuh505:

Did you read the context? Navigator wrote, "I thought we use colon before someone saying."

In this context, Navigator was referring to the introduction of dialogue. The characters in his story were "talking." The characters in his story were not "saying." He confused the word "saying" for the word "talking." I assume this confusion is natural for someone who is learning the English language.

I merely used Navigator's own sentence and substituted the word "talking" for the word "saying." Hopefully, that will help him to understand the difference between the two words in his mind. However, you fail acknowledge that I gave Navigator an example of a better way of writing his sentence to make his point.

This was my suggestion for a rewrite:

"I thought a colon was used to introduce dialogue."

Here is your suggestion:

"I thought a colon was used before a quote"

How is my suggestion blatantly wrong? How is your suggestion better than mine? Additionally, Navigator was using a colon to introduce dialogue. He was not using a colon to introduce a quote. Therefore, my suggestion is far more accurate than yours.

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Deb, I think you win.

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matter of preference
Thank you, Fortune!

The phrase, "don't know anything more . . ." is used so often by Americans in my neck of the woods (and apparently all over the country), that any attempt to label it "blatantly wrong" is . . . blatantly wrong.

LOL

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Quote:

You're a sophmore. You have a lot of growing up to do before you can truly perceive the meaning of maturity.

Let me get this straight...

1) You give wrong advice to someone asking about language.
2) I correct you.
3) You throw a temper tantrum and say that you are still right, and say that I am immature.
4) I calmly respond, still haven't insulted you.
5) You get even madder, start writing in bold, and say that I cannot even comprehend the level of maturity that you have.

I guess, if this is how you define maturity, then you're right I will never be as "mature" as you.

I stand by my earlier reply to Navigator. I did not feel he had grounds to complain given the excessive amount of help he was already getting.

Quote:

There was nothing blatantly wrong with any of my suggestions in this thread. You know it, but you were just being an a$$.

Will you please stop getting emotional? My interest in this conversation is purely grammatical...I was not intending to be an "ass", I was just doing what I expect everyone to do for me, which is correct me if I happen to give wrong advice. This is one of the best ways to learn. There's no need to take it personally.

Quote:

You obviously resented Navigator's recent post. You wanted to punish Navigator for his "unthankful attitude." You want the entire board to abandon all efforts to help him. Therefore, you were determined to attack any person who attempted to help him.

I have no desire to assist Navigator if that means that I have to get in a pissing match with you after every post. You achieved your goal. Are you a pleased with yourself?

I have no idea where you came up with these wild assertions. Indeed, I did resent Navigators post...but that is no secret, because I said that in plain English. However, I obviously did not mean to "punish" Navigotor, because I am still here trying to help him on this thread. I am sorry that you think I "attacked" you, that is not the case. You said something that was wrong, I thought that Navigator deserved to know it, and I thought that you would be grateful to me for being corrected...as I would be, because none of us are perfect (I do not think that I am perfect) and we should be happy at any opportunity to improve our writing skills.

And I think it is evident that my goal has not been achieved, or else I would not still be talking on this thread...my goal was simply to clear up the misunderstanding, which has evidently become more difficult than I expected.

Quote:

Deb, I think you win.

Please, this is NOT a fight--at least not from my perspective. We are adults...

Quote:

(Why don't you check out your own sentences and count the grammatical errors.)

Of course, I make grammatical errors; we all do. But there is quite a substantial difference between making a grammatical error in conversation text versus when correcting someone elses grammar.

Indeed, I expect that if I happen to make a grammatical correction which is in fact wrong, people will correct me! The forum would be useless if they did not. It is their "civic duty."

Quote:

This was my suggestion for a rewrite:

"I thought a colon was used to introduce dialogue."

Here is your suggestion:

"I thought a colon was used before a quote"

Your suggestion here is perfectly valid. In fact, it's better to say "introduce dialogue" than "a quote." However, you make 2 suggestions, and indicated that they were both valid. I did not mention this one because it was valid. In your other correction, you did correct one thing...but you cannot just correct one mistake and then say the sentence is valid, because that implies that the other mistake does not exist.

You DID imply that this was a valid sentence: "I thought we use colon before someone talking."

And it is not a valid sentence because "thought" is in past tense and "use" is in present tense. Beyond that, it is also not correct to say "before someone talking" there needs to be an "is" inserted after someone because you need a conjugation of the verb "to be". is? was?

"I don't know anything more than you do"

This sentence is intended to say that one person does not know more than another. By putting the word "thing" in there, it changes the meaning to "I don't know anything", which is a complete sentence itself, and makes the entire sentence into a compound sentence whose second simple sentence is incomplete.

edit - just because something is used in speech in your neck of the woods doesn't make it grammatically correct.

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Stuh505
Stuh505:

I did not give wrong advice to Navigator. There was nothing wrong with any of my suggestions in this this thread. You openly accused me, but you never corrected me. You simply declared that I was wrong and giving bad advice without explaining yourself.

If you insist upon ridiculing, attacking and accusing someone of being blatantly wrong, then you ought to justify your accusation. You haven't done so.

When constructing dialogue, you do so in the manner in which people speak. It is common for people to say, "I don't know anything more than you do." You attacked me and declared that I was wrong, but you did NOT correct me.

It wasn't until 3 or 4 posts later that you finally attempted to justify yourself by claiming that the word "anything" was blatantly wrong and the correct word is "any."

You still didn't justify your alteration of the dialogue. You didn't point to any grammatical rule that requires a person to use the word "any" in place of the word "anything" in dialogue or anywhere else for that matter.

Likewise, you knew I was assisting Navigator to learn the difference between the word "saying" and "talking" in the context in which he misused the word "saying." Then I gave Navigator an example of a better, restructured, grammatically correct sentence. Again, you accused me of being blatantly wrong, but you have never corrected what you allege to be wrong.

We know it is impossible to read another person's mind. Obtaining direct evidence of a person's state of mind is impossible short of a confession. However, that's why we rely upon circumstantial evidence to determine a person's motives or intentions.

Here are the facts:

1. You spent a "few hours" responding to Navigator's posts.

2. You were angry with Navigator because he felt neglected.

3. You wrote a post confessing that you resented Navigator's "unthankful attitude." (quote: "i resent your unthankful attitude, i for one have spent a few hours editing your work alone"

4. Soon thereafter, you ridiculed and attacked another person who was responding to Navigator's posts.

5. You declared the responder was wrong and giving bad advice.

6. You did not justify your accusation.

7. When an explanation was requested, you made more accusations of immaturity and throwing fits for being "corrected."

8. Although you allege that you "corrected" a "blatantly wrong" post, this is false. You did not make any corrections, you only made accusations.

9. When pushed for an explanation, you finally submitted a post that was so ridiculous that it cannot possibly justify your accusations.

This evidence proves beyond a reasonable doubt in my mind that you were NOT motivated to help Navigator from falling victim to "bad advice." On the contrary, it proves that you were motivated to attack any poster who attempted to help Navigator for the purpose of depriving him of assistance and to punish him for his "unthankful attitude" that you confessed to resenting.

You have been tried and you are guilty of ill-will.

You can make as many post-trial motions/appeals/posts as you want to argue the facts and to declare your innocence. But, you aren't going to change my verdict. Case closed.

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writing ( 9 )

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