Transhumanism; the shedding of our primitive chrysalis.

To attempt to create a degree of order in this thread, i will suggest that we first discuss the concept of Transhumanism; serious research efforts based upon the premise that the human animal can and should be modified to improve its 'performance' in the future, for the express purpose of augmenting the life experiences, and potential of each individual.

Is this a valid endeavour? (Surely we all agree that the present world does not represent the best of all possible worlds; is this a valid way to go about addressing that deficiency?)

if not why not?

[before going on to examine the details, and other options.]

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Is it a valid endeavor? It depends. (How is that for a cop out?).

Is it a valid endeavor? I'm going to say yes. It is a valid endeavor, but it is a path that has danger on all sides. Like walking a tightrope.

But just because it is dangerous, that doesn't mean we scrap it. We make plenty of journeys that are loaded with danger on all sides. Like going to the moon, etc.

Why is it valid? IMO, each species has an innate drive, a primal force, inexorable, inevitable, moving it, driving it, to evolve, to become, to expand, to self-actualize. You can't hold it back. Transhumanism appears to be within the realm of the path of human evolution. We must proceed. We have no choice as to whether to proceed. We will proceed. If there is any purpose for human existence, this is undoubtedly one of them. Indeed, it is happening right now. The only choice is, How we will evolve at each turn on this journey.

I think its a valid endeavor, but one that is loaded with danger and ethical dilemmas at every turn.

Each step needs to be considered, reconsidered, and considered again. I think that is sort of what is happening now. Science is actually being slowed down by all the "ethical dilemmas" (stem cell research debate, etc.). I don't know that this slow down is necessarily a bad thing, though.

-ex(I can't believe we made it to the 3rd page of this thread prior to discussiong the original question & what does that say about human potential)tra Evil or Very Mad

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Good morning, Bo, et al.

At this point, I think we have a need for compression.

'What is a human being, then?'
'A seed.'
'A... seed?'
'An acorn that is unafraid to destroy itself in growing into a tree'

David Zindell, The Broken God
Transhumanism is a philosophy that humanity can, and should, strive to higher levels, both physically, mentally and socially. It encourages research into such areas as life extension, cryonics, nanotechnology, physical and mental enhancements, uploading human consciousness into computers and megascale engineering.

Genetic engineering. Right?

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UhOh. I think I just killed Bo's thread.

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Letty wrote:

UhOh. I think I just killed Bo's thread.

Maybe its hibernating. Prepping for a quantum leap forward in evolution.

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Well, extra. I'm prepping for an evening eating lobster and watching the ocean. <smile>

Later, all.

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Letty wrote:

.........such areas as life extension, cryonics, nanotechnology, physical and mental enhancements, uploading human consciousness into computers and megascale engineering.

Genetic engineering. Right?

Quite right!

It is foolish to say that, for example, a diabetic should spend their entire life injecting, or taking (if appropriate) insulin, if research finds a way to modify the patient's genetic make up to eliminate the problem.

Perhaps making us all tall and blond, and Arian, is NOT in the cards, but research on repairing genetic errors is obvious!

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extra medium wrote:

........Is it a valid endeavor? I'm going to say yes. It is a valid endeavor, but it is a path that has danger on all sides. Like walking a tightrope.........Why is it valid? IMO, each species has an innate drive, a primal force, inexorable, inevitable, moving it, driving it, to evolve, to become, to expand, to self-actualize. You can't hold it back. Transhumanism appears to be within the realm of the path of human evolution. We must proceed. We have no choice as to whether to proceed. We will proceed. If there is any purpose for human existence, this is undoubtedly one of them. Indeed, it is happening right now. The only choice is, How we will evolve at each turn on this journey..........

extra; i have to question your use of the terms "evolution", and "evolve";
i am convinced that for the human animal, evolution is over! (evolution being the testing of chance mutations by the environment) We neither have time, nor a natural environment to allow that system to continue to 'mold' us.
The point here is that we take changing the 'nature' of humanity into our own hands, instigating changes by technological, chemical, and other methods that we are currently fashioning.
[i do, however, realize we will probably continue to use the word 'evolve' to indicate progress, and there is no point in being overly picky!]

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BoGoWo,

Okay, I'll accept that, to a degree.

Though I don't accept that "Evolution is over."

Consider this: At the same time we consciously alter the human being, natural evolution will continue to take place in the human race.

Unless you are saying that all future procreation and all births are to take place under the guidance of transhumanist scientists, etc., so that all newborn may be monitored, controlled, engineered?

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Quote:

i am convinced that for the human animal, evolution is over! (evolution being the testing of chance mutations by the environment)

What!?!

That is a very short term view you're taking there.
Evolution is not over until we go extinct.

BoGoWo, are you one of those that believe a singularity is coming this century?

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The controlling factor, extra, is time; evolution is a system of infinite error correction, by the use of huge numbers of itterations.
We will be far beyond any potential successful mutations, long before any have had a chance to take effect.

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Okay, I can see your line of thinking on this, Bo.

However, it appears you have more faith the infallibility of scientists, politicians, etc., than I. Its great to be optimistic, but don't you see endless pitfalls on this path?

For example, our best minds could study a potential genetic improvement to death, and conclude its great from all angles. Then, in spite of the best efforts of the best scientists, we somehow end up with the atomic bomb of genetic engineering. (20th century physics example)

Then, instead of "improving" on evolution, we actually muck things up...badly.

Humanity could screw themselves so weirdly that they may need to depend on that thing called evolution. And there are many types of evolution. Who's to say for sure we haven't evolved in the last 300 years? People are much taller...What if our brains and our thinking are evolving right now, and only the fittest (in a messy darwinian way) mentally are really making it these days and procreating into the future? I'm not going to defend this, I'm just saying there are different kinds of evolution, as far as I'm concerned.

I see the out of control genetic engineering scenario as a possibility. I'm not one of those that greatly fears this sort of thing. But I do see that possibility there.

What sorts of checks & balances do you foresee being put in place so we don't have Frankenstein experiments going nuts worldwide?

Or maybe that is okay? Laughing

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In the developed world, there may be a little bit of evolution going on right now. With a C-section rate of 25%, one end of the stabilizing selection that keeps babies a reasonable size has been negated. So now we might be getting bigger babies and bigger people.

Adrian,
Please explain the 'singularity' thing; I've seen it mentioned, and I have no idea what it is.

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extra medium wrote:

.........For example, our best minds could study a potential genetic improvement to death, and conclude its great from all angles. Then, in spite of the best efforts of the best scientists, we somehow end up with the atomic bomb of genetic engineering. (20th century physics example)............

there is plenty of scope here for the next great thrust of exploration, and pioneering - always a dangerous business - those with 'advances' to make should try them on themselves.

extra medium wrote:

...... Who's to say for sure we haven't evolved in the last 300 years? People are much taller...

me, you are talking about the effects of nutritional plenty - and now obesity is becoming rampant; and that is due to excess, and nutritionally bad choices, not evolution.

extra medium wrote:

.......What if our brains and our thinking are evolving right now, and only the fittest (in a messy darwinian way) mentally are really making it these days and procreating into the future?.....

Changes in the way people think, is the result of education, or various forms of applied propaganda (MTV, for example), not mutations in the brain chemistry, all of which, including the mutations would have no affect on the ability to procreate in the current medically astute society.

extra medium wrote:

......What sorts of checks & balances do you foresee being put in place so we don't have Frankenstein experiments going nuts worldwide?

What is needed is a scientifically savvy advisory board; arm's length from government, church, and commerce.
Easy to say; hard to create without the meddling of every interest group on the planet!

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I remember when my son did an excellent paper on recombinant DNA. I had never heard of it, but in helping him with his paper, I learned quite a bit.

One thing that might be worth while, is an attempt to engineer a process that would correct the deviant mind/personality of the criminal.

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The way to eliminate 'criminality' is to correct society, which creates and supports it.

[Criminals are not born, they are 'manufactured'!]

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There are those who would disagree with you, Bo. The deviant or aberrant behavior among the mentally ill has often been attributed to the genes and not the environment.

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I believe the source of "the crimminal" is another case of a combination of nature & nurture. Some are probably born with a natural propensity to go a certain direction, but the environment they grow up in is a huge influence also.

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extra, what I was referencing, was the Twin Studies. In monozygotic twins, separated at birth and growing up in different environments, it was found that if one twin exhibited schizophrenia, the other had a startling correlation of being schizophrenic. There have, of course, been other twin studies done, but basically, that would be my support for genetic engineering as a correctional process.

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Actually I would rather trust nature to do it's mutations rather than us performing our own at least at this point in time. Yes, we're taller - though many are more inclined horizontally in that respect - because the amount of energy we absorb per body is massive compared to what it was. At the same time, we aren't smarter by an iota than any other human in the last 8000 years. Based on what we already know, it would have been better the other way around. Its also erroneous to think that because we possess a technology we also understand it's theater of operation and the changes it can inflict. That is a process in itself and usually more complex than discovery of its technique. Unfortunately, we are too anxious to "capitalize" economically or militarily before any such insight takes place. The commanders and chiefs of the planet are usually and singularly bereft of will or brain power to make the most sensible choice and so on many occasions are the educated elite.

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Transhumanism; the shedding of our primitive chrysalis.

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