47
   

Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 07:58 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Just checked out it seems Le Pen is being crushed in the latest poll results.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 09:43 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Quote:
Europe never conquered the "whole world" as you claimed, and didn't hold on to what it did seize for very long.
Europe did conquer nearly the whole world, to the exception of Japan, Thailand, Ethiopia and Afghanistan.
You left out China and Mongolia. Many of these "conquests" were ephemeral and others very destructive, leaving ghastly residues that still haunt today's world. That said, these were indeed great achievements, some yielding lasting benefits. However the EU of today does not appear to at all embody the characteristics that made those achievements possible. Indeed the contrary appears indicated.

Olivier5 wrote:
Quote:
It's sole leadership in science vanished a long time ago,
That was not the point. My point was that science was what made the "west" so powerful, historically. Therefore the anti-science outlook of Trump and co. can only weaken the US.
I believe you are too blithely conflating the narrow domain of currently fashionable "climate science" with science writ large. 'Climate science', in my perception, is as much religion as science ( a poor substitute as well, lacking the esthetic beauty of much of what it replaced).

Olivier5 wrote:
Quote:
The EU' s "courage to face global warming" hasn't so far accomplished much with respect to that phenomenon
Nevertheless, it takes some courage to face the truth and to try and act upon it. More courage than it takes to ignore or debase the truth and avoid one's responsibilities... The US' constant attacks on the "messengers" of climate change (the scientists) are an act of cowardice.
I'm not aware of the attacks to which you refer. I think many here agree with the Dane Bjorn Lundberg .that the warming is real, but much less than forecast by the zealots ( as repeatedly confirmed by measurement), and not worth fixing with today's technologies. Moreover these AGW zealots, who also condemn emission free nuclear power, also reveal that their motives and arguments are not "scientific" at all. I would agree with you if you substituted the word "folly" for "courage". Pissing into the wind is an indicator of folly, not courage.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 09:48 am
Quote:
http://i.imgur.com/stdCgS0.jpg


From the report THE SPANISH ARE COMING! in "The Sun":
Quote:
http://i.imgur.com/NV37ueP.jpg
Spanish patrol boat chased out of Brit waters off Gibraltar by the Royal Navy

The RN has two boats stationed in Gibraltar - HMS Sabre and HMS Scimitar, 16-metre Scimitar-class fast patrol boats; commissioned into the Gibraltar squadron on 31 January 2003 and used for police, customs and rescue purposes

Spanish Patrol Boat “INFANTA CRISTINA” (P-77)
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 09:59 am
@Olivier5,
I did my share of world travel having traveled to 81 countries, and find myself as a internationalist in many respects.
I remember my visit to Gibraltar, and having a brew at the oldest pub. Even went up the mountain, and learned that as long as there are 22 monkeys, England will hold control. There were more than 22.
One amazing incident on that van ride up the mountain: a monkey came on the van, and drove the van a short distance.
Also, bought my wife Lladro of two children; a boy and a girl.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 10:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Tinfoil hat on is May conluded with the Spaniards...I can almost believe it.
Something smells. Perhaps Brexit is not to happen...
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 12:17 pm
@georgeob1,
Okay so I left off China and Mongolia. My apologies to the Chinese and Mongolians.

Everytime you say 'climate change' is a religion, you're attacking the messenger (aka scientists) because you fear his message. But you're blissfully unaware of any attack on science, huh?

Quote:
I think many here agree with the Dane Bjorn Lundberg .that the warming is real, but much less than forecast by the zealots ( as repeatedly confirmed by measurement), and not worth fixing with today's technologies.

Oh yeah? And how many of you non-zealot semi-sceptics are from the US, do you think?

This is not the kind of response the Great Generation would have given. This is the modern-day USA chickening out of a very serious threat, and even sabotaging the efforts of those nations who want to do something about it.



Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 12:51 pm
EU rules state that trade deals can only be done with non-members - something, PM May seems to have noticed only today, during her visit to Jordan.
Quote:
Speaking during a visit to Jordan, Ms May said she expected the shape of a new trade relationship to be clear to everybody by Brexit Day in March 2019, but appeared to accept that the formal conclusion of the agreement will have to wait until after withdrawal.
Source
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 12:54 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I'm afraid to trust polls now. Le Pen is having a bad campaign but she's still a threat. After Brexit and Trump it, with the disaffection for traditional politics, with Putin seen as fighting the good fight in Syria and the memories of terrorist attacks still fresh, she's got a lot going for her.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 01:06 pm
@Olivier5,
It is a cockeyed world when a Trump, the racial bigot and con, can become the president of a "free" and "democratic" country.
His current approval rating is now 36% and disapproval rating at 59%. Buyer's remorse. The majority of that 36% are the uneducated.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 01:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
No kidding.... Even the buffone Berlusconi was better prepared.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 01:38 pm
@Olivier5,
The Russians would love to see EU fall, and now its the time...again, today I am with the tinfoil hat full on. A terrorist attack looking like having Muslim origin coming from Putin it's not impossible. Le Pen would win and the EU would be finished.
Olivier5
 
  0  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 02:28 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Nah, nothing as batshit crazy as that is to be feared from comrade Vladimir. He's a rational guy, methodical and cold-blooded. He's also on the defense after the Trump rump, already accused to have lent money to Le Pen... France is on high alert. A false flag attack would involve taking pretty serious risks. He can't go that far.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 02:45 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

This is not the kind of response the Great Generation would have given. This is the modern-day USA chickening out of a very serious threat, and even sabotaging the efforts of those nations who want to do something about it.


I really don't understand your repeated conflation of AGW zealotry with courage. Nations all over the world dutifully sign up to the largely European-sponsored agreements and just as easily ignore their supposed "commitments" (if indeed any meaningful ones are given) to corrective action. Does that require courage??

On either a GHG emissions per capita or per unit of GDP we do rather well compared to the rest of the world - certainly far better than our Canadian neighbors.

Most of today's so-called corrective actions are at best only marginally effective. Government subsidies and mandates for the use of wind turbines and/or photo voltaic solar cells have significant negative effects in terms of reducing incentives for investments in technical improvements in the very processes they purport to advance, and in limiting price competition from other sources. Given the very low capacity factors ( = actual power produced/theoretical max capacity) wind and solar are at best 30%, compared to conventional sources closer to 90%, and they don't contribute to base load requirements. Market driven technical innovation and cost competition generally delivers better and more lasting solutions - as the fracking revolution has already demonstrated.

We lack efficient technologies for the efficient large scale storage & retrieval of energy - 50% recovery is about the best currently achievable. That and solar production of free hydrogen (through something like photosynthesis), together with less deliberately unpredictable licensing of modern nuclear plants in the US and other countries, offer real solutions ...... and that is what the Chinese are working on. The contemporary world of AGW zealots in Europe and America see solutions through political mandates for wasteful inefficient technologies and rationing. Those are hardly "scientific" solutions, and it doesn't take "courage" to mandate their use - P.C. group think and stupidity will suffice.

Angela Merkel, herself a physicist (who surely knows better) shut down Germany's older nuclear plants, replacing their power with imports generated by coal, and invested many billions in wind turbines in not-very-windy areas of north Germany - all to defeat and destroy the Green Party. It worked, but it was politics, not science.
Foofie
 
  1  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 03:27 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Foofie wrote:
you can be assured that your own motherland is not appreciated by those that appreciate humility.

That is simply not true. I travel the world over for a living, and France is well regarded wherever you go. Your little, inward-looking social circles do not represent the world, Foof.


Well, if you visit NYC (Manhattan in the upscale areas), yes there are many that send their kids for French lessons, and go ga-ga over this or that boutique where they bought "this darling" whatever. The French culture in the hinterland of the U.S. (Friday night high school football and NASCAR) may not be devotees of the sophistication of the French; they might even perceive it as pompous, or even effete, perhaps. Be that as it may, the British do not have a superiority complex. They might be superior to many on the continent when one realizes that much of the world wants to speak, or learn some level of, English. French was the diplomatic language in a prior era. German was the scientific language of a prior era. English now functions for the benefit of those that want money. And, let's be intellectually honest, the entire world wants money today, even Communist nations want money. As the song went by Joel Gray in Cabaret, "Money Makes the World Go 'Round." Psychology calls this reaction formation, since there was a time when good parochial school children were taught, "A camel can sooner walk through the eye of a needle, than a rich man go to Heaven." Anyway, it's fine if you cannot admit the superiority of the British, and its culture. You do know the event that Cinco de Mayo is for in Mexico?
Foofie
 
  1  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 03:30 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

At least "by and large"... Of course we have our share of assholes.

Over and beyond past contributions, many people outside the US and UK do appreciate that France is not systematically aligned to the US and UK. We get a lot of good rap just for being different from the US, and not shy of speaking our mind. My compatriots are also often seen as more approachable, friendlier, less distant than Americans, especially in the Third World.


Except many do not like to speak English to tourists, I thought, even though they know it.
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  1  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 05:53 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

The Russians would love to see EU fall, and now its the time...again, today I am with the tinfoil hat full on. A terrorist attack looking like having Muslim origin coming from Putin it's not impossible. Le Pen would win and the EU would be finished.


Are you worried about a similar threat coming from Britain?

No you are not, because Brits don't do that.
Kolyo
 
  1  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 05:59 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Gibraltar is more hawkish on the issue of Gibraltar than Britain is.

I asked my father whether Gibraltar had any strategic military significance to Britain. He said, no, and he didn't think the Falklands had any either.

So what's the fuss about? These are rocks in the ocean.
McGentrix
 
  2  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 06:02 pm
@Kolyo,
Kolyo wrote:

Gibraltar is more hawkish on the issue of Gibraltar than Britain is.

I asked my father whether Gibraltar had any strategic military significance to Britain. He said, no, and he didn't think the Falklands had any either.

So what's the fuss about? These are rocks in the ocean.


They are English rocks in the Ocean though.
Kolyo
 
  1  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 06:05 pm
@McGentrix,
Yeah, and I'm well-aware England almost unanimously agrees with you.

Oh well...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 4 Apr, 2017 10:16 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
They are English rocks in the Ocean though.
Not really (besides that it would be UK-rocks): Gibraltar’s relationship with Britain and Europe is complicated to say the least. But although Gibraltar is a British Overseas Territory, it isn't really a colony.
All the recent disputes mainly arose from violations of territorial sea borders.
 

Related Topics

THE BRITISH THREAD II - Discussion by jespah
FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION - Discussion by Mapleleaf
The United Kingdom's bye bye to Europe - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
Sinti and Roma: History repeating - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
[B]THE RED ROSE COUNTY[/B] - Discussion by Mathos
Leaving today for Europe - Discussion by cicerone imposter
So you think you know Europe? - Discussion by nimh
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.21 seconds on 11/25/2024 at 11:45:55