Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

@Walter Hinteler,

How long has the UK been a part of the EU?

It's not like they're breaking new ground with this.

@Builder,

They've been a member country of the EU since 43 years.

And 'yes', it's the first a member breaks away (leaving aside Greenland)

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@Walter Hinteler,

Just two remarks

Boris Johnson wrote:

We should be incredibly proud and positive about the UK, and what it can now achieve. And we will achieve those things together, with all four nations united. We had one Scotland referendum in 2014, and I do not detect any real appetite to have another one soon; and it goes without saying that we are much better together in forging a new and better relationship with the EU – based on free trade and partnership, rather than a federal system.

There is no federal system in the EU. (Mostly accepted is that the EU is a sui generis organisation.)

Boris Johnson wrote:

British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market. Britain is and always will be a great European power, offering top-table opinions and giving leadership on everything from foreign policy to defence to counter-terrorism and intelligence-sharing – all the things we need to do together to make our world safer.

The EU will be the arbiter, not Boris Johnson. There is no suggestion that EU citizens will continue to have equivalent rights in the UK.

The BDI said something very different to what is quoted here - that passage is referring to what the main chief bureaucrat said earlier ... as one of several possibilities he mentioned (here, he was referring to the Switzerland and/or Norway model)

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote Walter:

Quote:

There is no suggestion that EU citizens will continue to have equivalent rights in the UK.

Of course citizens of one country don't have the same rights when they reside in another country as the citizens there. Yet many people elect to do that-reside in a different country from which they have citizenship-and they work, marry, raise kids, and all the rest. There's always paperwork, etc but basically they do fine. The point is that trade and travel between the EU and the UK will go on, and probably with a lot less disruption in most cases than the Remain side is making out.

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@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

Of course citizens of one country don't have the same rights when they reside in another country as the citizens there.

But that is the situation now (free movement,no working permit) and will be at least so for two years.

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@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

The point is that trade and travel between the EU and the UK will go on, and probably with a lot less disruption in most cases than the Remain side is making out.

But new contacts have to be made ... after the "divorce".
Since the UK didn't join Schengen, we not really a lot will change, I think.
Perhaps no visa will be needed, just a passport or (for us German) ID-card + visior cards (I always did the latter because I didn't have a passport in those days).

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

But new contacts have to be made ... after the "divorce".

OK, so? There are a lot of people involved when a country joins the EU, doing the paperwork, etc. We are talking about a nation and a union with tens of millions of people, a few hundred people hammering out an agreement on trade won't be that much.

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@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

We are talking about a nation and a union with tens of millions of people, a few hundred people hammering out an agreement on trade won't be that much.

It took two years with Greenland - and that what just about fish.
Since 1993(when the EU started) 231 laws re business have been done in UK, plus 4,283 Statutory Instruments which implemented EU obligations.

Most EU regulations did't require new UK laws - but now have to be talked about.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Still not much when you compare the amount of trade between the EU and the UK. This thing will not founder on paperwork.

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@Blickers,

Perhaps. But even when it goes on fast ... most has to go through the 27 national parliaments of the EU-countries as well.

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@Walter Hinteler,

There are now again discussions that the UK should join the 'triangle' of non-EU countries (just now by Iceland's president).

Greenland, Iceland, Norway and the Faroe Islands either belong to the European Economic Area (EEA) or are overseas territories whose people have EU citizenship.
But membership of the EEA would require the unanimous consent of all 27 member states, the European Parliament, and the four European Free Trade Association states, Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and Liechtenstein. (And being part of the EEA involves the free movement of people anyway.)

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote Walter:

Quote:

Perhaps. But even when it goes on fast ... most has to go through the 27 national parliaments of the EU-countries as well.

Or else what? No trade will exist between the UK and the EU? Seems unlikely.

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@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

Or else what? No trade will exist between the UK and the EU? Seems unlikely.

There are at least two years time during which the UK still is a member country of the EU. (Most probably even more since they don't want enact article 50 before September/October.)

Certainly trade will be done afterwards as well, like with any other country.

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@Walter Hinteler,

So then there is no great problem. All that is going to be negotiated then, is whether the UK will be treated like any other non-EU country who trades with the EU, or the terms and conditions under which the UK might get some special treaty with the EU. Trade continues, massive economic dislocation is being completely blown up by the media and various parties.

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@Blickers,

I'm not sure what the big deal is. Trade is going to continue. When all is said and done, the Brits will continue to trade with the EU countries. Isolation doesn't benefit anyone.

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@Blickers,

Well, yes. But that's what actually no-one wants, especially not the UK (but all other 27 EU-countries, too: 400,000 people work in UK branches of German companies for instance, and that number excludes car brands Mini, Rolls Royce, and Bentley.)

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@Walter Hinteler,

Today, after having watch (not only Wimbledon and the European championship in football) what happened in and around Parliament in London and the Chancellery in Berlin: Don't worry. Be happy. We don't have a plan, but things will work out just fine.

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@Walter Hinteler,

You can't, seriously, speak for others?

I am here, among many - And most are pissed at.

My example.
I live in a block of terraced-council houses.
80% of my neighbours are E.Europs. NONE of them work. I labour 9-12 hrs On my feet (actual labour) 5 days p/w - Missus -up at 4.30 am - Works till 8pm 5 1/2 days p/w (actual labour).

Neighbours wake midday - Play loud music till 3-6 am, have barbecues, make noise, have free rent, medical, optical, food-vouchers, nice cars, etc.
They sit on their assess day and night - And WE foot the bill.

Long story short - NO FRIKKIN MORE!

Ps - They've all been VERY quiet these last few days - Had some decent sleep, at last.

Go figure.....

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote Walter:

Quote:

400,000 people work in UK branches of German companies for instance, and that number excludes car brands Mini, Rolls Royce, and Bentley.)

So do you know for a fact that those branches are going to be closed because of the Brexit? We have foreign car makers operating factories and branches over here too and we were never in the EU.

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@Blickers,

Would be a disaster, if Rolls Royce, Bentley and Mini (all 100% German) would be closed.*

Those 400,000 are the number of employees in 'real' German industry branches in the UK, like e.g a company from my home, which manufactures lighting and electronic components and systems for the automotive industry, 32,000 employees worldwide, a few thousands in the UK)

'Edit: but BMW had warned their workers in the UK, I just noticed: BMW warns staff in UK Rolls Royce factories of Brexit risks

1 Reply

Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

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