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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 04:35 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
Germany has many social programs in place, and is a hub of commercial and industrial activity.

Do you believe that the prosperity of your nation should be shared with other nations under the EU banner, who don't share Germany's active prosperity?
Hmm. That would imply new and different EU-rules to those being active until now.

I can't say 'yes' or 'no' until I see the wordings. But I'm quite content with the momentary situation, regarding our share, though we certainly could do more.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 04:40 am
@Tes yeux noirs,
Quote:
I didn't know there were Haitians in it.


It's more a question of who wasn't "in it" when it comes to immigration and Britain, but if you're referring to the series "Love Thy Neighbour", you're probably right.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2002/race/short_history_of_immigration.stm
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 04:42 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
...though we certainly could do more.


Meaning prop up other, less productive nations with your own prosperity? Is that how you see the EU functioning to benefit all, Walter?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 04:46 am
@Builder,
Well that's the idea behind a community.

Germany, as a country, wouldn't function, if one state wouldn't support the other (Equalization Payments in Germany, "Länderfinanzausgleich").
I'm not saying, such should be introduce in the EU - but by trade and other exchanges it works in that direction
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 04:55 am
@Walter Hinteler,
And yet I clearly recall Angela Merkel stating that Greece would have to "suffer" austerity measures, because she couldn't see her nation bailing them out.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 04:56 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Well that's the idea behind a community.


That's actually a collectivist concept, in my understanding.

I'm not at all surprised that others are considering Britain's actions more than casually.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 05:27 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
And yet I clearly recall Angela Merkel stating that Greece would have to "suffer" austerity measures, because she couldn't see her nation bailing them out.
I didn't want to imply that Germany or any other EU-member country should give another EU-member so much money that all 27 are equal.
Greece got help, mainly monetarily but other as well. Not from one country but from all other 27 member countries.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 05:31 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
That's actually a collectivist concept, in my understanding.
I've no problem with that. But the collective nature of all the three European Communities up to the EU (which was only founded in 1993) are well documented and laid down in the various treaties.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 08:17 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes. This sounds fine and fair to me.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 08:19 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:

Quote:
Who spoke up for Remain?


I think you're missing my point, Walter. The people have lost faith completely in all of those people you've listed. The "system" has let them down repeatedly; lied to them repeatedly; indebted them needlessly repeatedly; and ignored their needs repeatedly.

This is a system that cannot sustain itself, without putting people into a position of imposed austerity, while the people you mention live the high life.

It's the people, Walter. Aren't you one of them?

Here it is! More of us will be understanding this as time passes. Well said, Builder!!
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 08:25 am
@Builder,
It does seem true that when a populist movement wrestles power from the establishment, the xenophobes rise up and raise their fists too. The best the progressives can do is call them out and explain to establishment people what's happening.

But Glenn Greenwald's brilliant piece reminds us that the elites get mileage by dismissing the facts and using the media to paint the entire movement as xenophobic.

We are living in interesting times.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 09:01 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
We are living in interesting times.
The British public voted to name a new British survey vessel Boaty McBoatface, but that vote was ignored, and RSS Sir David Attenborough chosen as name.
Since the referendum is not binding, too, ... it could be similarly ignored.


What I really find interesting that nothing has been heard from the two main Brexit architects. But instead, Iain Duncan Smith ...
The £350m per week that Vote Leave had said would be used to fund the NHS. "We never said that." "We never made any commitments. We just made a series of promises that were possibilities." (Quotes from the Marr show.)

Labour is trying today to destroy itself. And the Conservative's fight for a new PM had to be expected as well.
0 Replies
 
Tes yeux noirs
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 09:27 am
The referendum could be a start, rather than an ending. Professor Steven Tierney at Scottishlegal.com:

http://www.scottishlegal.com/2016/06/24/brexit-what-happens-next/

Quote:
There are legal impediments to the Article 50 process being used to renegotiate terms, but the EU does not let legal niceties get in the way of realpolitik when the stakes are high. Some believe that the EU did not want to reveal its hand before the referendum, but may now offer better terms of membership to the UK. Brexit is a headache it could do without. UK ‘leavers’ would have to be brought onside, but many of these are ‘soft-leavers’. The referendum did not offer a mid-way option – a reformed EU, or a better position for the UK within it – beyond the deal negotiated by the Prime Minister. There was no promise of a ‘Smith Commission’ to appease those who want reform. Will the EU try to bring about such a reform? The UK is so embedded within the EU that untangling membership would be a massive task that may in time appear unnecessary.

There is of course a strong argument that this simply won’t happen. Such an accommodation of the UK would surely need treaty reform and would therefore require the unanimous consent of all Member States to any new deal. As I say, it would also open the door for other states to push for reform and better terms. This latter point could well mean that, for Brussels and the dominant forces within the EU, the political cost could just be too high; the danger being that the monetary union itself could collapse. But this issue will be on the table when the dust settles, and over time the gap between a free trade deal for the UK and ongoing membership may start to shrink towards vanishing point.

0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  4  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 09:56 am
30 years ago, the series "Yes, Prime Minister" explained the Brexit very well Smile
I just loved that show!!



0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  3  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 11:40 am
Personally, I am not only sick and tired of all the crap thar has been thrown at the Brexit side over the past month, but am fed up to the back teeth, but not surprised, at the ensuing whine that has arisen since the result.

TYN had a Hyacinth Bucket moment the other day, when he snobbishly declared that Brexit had won because of the, and I paraphrase as I don't exactly remember every bigoted slur of the rant, "the beer swilling, white van drivers who are currently causing all the trouble at the Euros"

If he had written about any other group like that, he'd have been banned from A2K.

Democracy goes against the grain for those who are used to getting their own metropolitan elite, holier than thou way.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 11:50 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:
Democracy goes against the grain for those who are used to getting their own metropolitan elite, holier than thou way.
Well, not everyone can belong to the Eton and Oxford educated proletariat.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 12:00 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:

While UK's EU commissioner Lord Hill resignsed following Brexit vote - what about the other British EU-employees?


shouldn't they have to return to Britain? apply for residency and work visas in the countries they're interested in
Quote:
Apart from Hill, about 1,200 British civil servants work at the European Commission. It is expected that high-ranking officials such as general directors will be suspended. However, on Friday Juncker seemed to suggest that other British civil servants could keep their jobs in Brussels, even after the Brexit is finalized. Several hundred Britons also work on the European Council, in the European Parliament, on the Committee of the Regions, on the Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs and in other EU institutions.
Source
CalamityJane
 
  5  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 03:24 pm
@Lordyaswas,
He's a Brit like you Smile so he probably is much more entitled to his opinion
than any of us mere mortals.

It's a fact that the geriatrics and the uneducated voted for the brexit. None of it is your excuse of course, - you're not old and you're an intellectual - but no one can look into the lives of others and know why they vote/do as they do.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jun, 2016 03:26 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I definitely wouldn't support that (if I was given a say in it).
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Jun, 2016 12:44 am
Boris Johnson's column in the Telegraph: I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe – and always will be


"Britain is ready to confront what the future holds for us from a position of strength" Chancellor George Osborne said in a statement at 07:15 BST at the Treasury, in his first public appearance since the Brexit vote.
 

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