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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 05:01 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The Guardian’s deputy political editor, Rowena Mason, has this from the morning’s lobby briefing.

No 10 confirmed that the government will pull the meaningful vote if anyone tries to amend it with a “Letwin 2” style change. This is all pretty hypothetical as John Bercow, the Speaker, seems likely to rule it out of order this afternoon.

Why is the government so keen on a meaningful vote when it also needs to pass a withdrawal agreement bill? The theory is that if it passed, then Boris Johnson would try to rescind his request to the EU for an article 50 extension, arguing MPs have given their consent for a deal. This morning, No 10 refused to comment on whether this ruse could be tried.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 07:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Scottish judges have delayed a final ruling on whether Boris Johnson is in contempt of court to ensure he agrees to an extension to Brexit.

Lord Carloway, the country’s most senior judge, said they needed to be sure the prime minister did not try to block or sabotage the application he was forced to make on Saturday night for an extension to Brexit until 31 January.

The court’s decision, issued after a short hearing at the court of session in Edinburgh, means Johnson faces being held in contempt if judges rule he has failed to honour pledges made to court not to frustrate the extension process.
The Guardian's live blog
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 07:45 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Michel Barnier will lead a "U.K. Task Force" in the next European Commission, effectively continuing his work as EU Brexit negotiator into the next phase of talks on a future trading arrangement.

PoliticoPro: Michel Barnier set to lead 'UK Task Force' in Brexit Phase II
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 07:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
As well as writing to Boris Johnson, the first ministers for Wales and Scotland have also send one to the President of the European Council, Donald Tusk, urging him to support an extension to Brexit that would allow MPs to scrutinise the current deal - and perhaps even hold a second referendum.

Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/qNnX25q.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/L5lFXQp.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 08:37 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Just now, Bercow says it is clear that the motions before the house are in substance the same and that the matter was decided as recently as 48 hours ago.

Edit: "My ruling is that the motion will not be debated today as it would be repetitive and disorderly to do so," he told MPs.
lmur
 
  1  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 08:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Sorry if you've posted this already but is it known when the EU will repond to the 'request' for an extension?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 08:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Bernard Jenkin, the Brexit supporting Tory MP, said that the motion which the government wanted to be voted on today was very different from the one which MPs considered on Saturday. And that the Public administration committee, which he chairs, will be holding hearing on the role of the speaker.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 09:03 am
@lmur,
lmur wrote:
... is it known when the EU will repond to the 'request' for an extension?
MEPs on the Brexit Steering Group confirmed this afternoon that the European parliament will not vote on the withdrawal agreement until the UK parliament has backed the deal.

Everything else is not known, but most/all think, they will agree.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 09:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Here's a Herculean question. What needs to be done by the UK to completely drop the Brexit process altogether and remain in the EU?

Outside of completely removing Boris Johnson and his party out of Parliament?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 09:27 am
@tsarstepan,
A second referendum, in my opinion.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 09:31 am
@Walter Hinteler,
What is the likelihood of that happening (even though we have members of Boris Johnson's party voting against Brexit or at least voting against Johnson's political maneuverings and being pushed out of the party)?
Olivier5
 
  2  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 09:41 am
@tsarstepan,
The chances for the UK to stay in the EU are vanishingly small. Only a counter-referendum could legitimize it, and such a referendum could only get triggered by a government of remainers. There's no such government in sight.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 09:51 am
@Olivier5,
I suppose that's correct.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 11:33 am
@Walter Hinteler,
This said, Brexit is a font of eternal surprise...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 12:01 pm
@Olivier5,
Johnson faces perilous Brexit ratification after deal vote blocked
Quote:
LONDON (Reuters) - Prime Minister Boris Johnson faces a potentially perilous ratification of his Brexit divorce deal in the British parliament after the speaker refused to allow a vote on it on Monday.

With just 10 days left until the United Kingdom is due to leave the European Union on Oct. 31, the divorce is again in disarray as Britain’s politicians argue over whether to leave with a deal, exit without a deal or hold another referendum.

The government is trying to force through the legislation needed for Britain to leave the bloc in the shortest time possible, drawing cries from opposition lawmakers that Johnson was trying to bully and rush lawmakers into passing the bill.

Earlier, House of Commons speaker John Bercow said a vote should not be allowed on Monday as the same issue had been discussed on Saturday when opponents turned Johnson’s big Brexit day into a humiliation.

“In summary, today’s motion is in substance the same as Saturday’s motion and the House (of Commons) has decided the matter. Today’s circumstances are in substance the same as Saturday’s circumstances,” Bercow told parliament.

“My ruling is therefore that the motion will not be debated today as it would be repetitive and disorderly to do so,” Bercow said, provoking the ire of Brexit supporting lawmakers who said they had been refused a chance to vote on Johnson’s deal.

Bercow said the government could still secure ratification for the Brexit deal by Oct. 31 if it had the numbers in parliament. Johnson was disappointed by the decision, a spokesman said.

But the speaker’s decision means that the government will have to try to push on with the legislation needed for ratification, a process opponents are plotting to wreck with amendments that would destroy Johnson’s deal.

Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the House of Commons, said the government wanted the lower house of parliament to finish voting on the bill on Thursday, before it heads to the upper house, which also has to approve it before the Brexit deadline.

“Trying to ram through legislation of this complexity, significance and long lasting consequences in just 3 days is an abomination of scrutiny and democracy,” said Nicola Sturgeon, the leader of the Scottish National Party.
... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 12:17 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Delivering a statement to MPs on the government’s preparations for a no-deal Brexit, the minister responsible – Michael Gove – has said:

Parliament had the opportunity on Saturday to support a meaningful vote which would have allowed us to proceed smoothly to ratification of our deal and exit on 31 October. But the House instead voted in such a way as to put an orderly exit on that day in doubt.

With no clear agreement yet in this House to ratify our withdrawal agreement and no certainty that an extension will be granted by 31 October, I must I fear take the appropriate steps now to prepare for the increased possibility that the legal default position will follow, and we will leave on 31 October without a deal.

The clear advice to me now from officials is that we must now intensify contingency arrangements.

We will now accelerate our efforts to help businesses and individuals mitigate any dislocation and disruption that may ensue.

Hundreds of public servants across the UK will have to be redeployed, they will transfer to work in operation centres ready to identify challenges, work together to resolve problems quickly, and implement contingency plans.

And, of course, we must maintain our public information campaign, from tomorrow this will reflect the renewed urgency of preparation.”


Continuing his statement, Gove said:

It remains the case that Northern Ireland will face unique challenges in a no-deal Brexit and we will need to take steps to ensure effective governance and to give direction to the Northern Ireland civil service.

This arrangement settlement has been sustainable to date, but leaving without a deal would represent a formidable challenge to the current position.

In that case, we would have to start formal engagement with the Irish government about further arrangements for providing strengthened decision-making, and that would include the real possibility of restoring a form of direct rule.

We will, of course, do everything to ensure that the interests of all communities across Ireland were safeguarded in any arrangements.

We all must recognise that this would be a gravestone, from which experience shows us it would be hard to return, particularly in the context of leaving without a deal.

Madame deputy speaker, even as we prepare for the challenges of no-deal, we will make the case at every forum that we can for leaving with a good deal.
From the Guardian's live blog
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 01:12 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The government has published the full text of the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) bill.

European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill (pdf)

The document, which sets out how the government intends to implement the Brexit deal, runs to 110 pages and MPs have been given until Thursday to scrutinise it and vote on it.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 01:50 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The withdrawal agreement bill includes a provision to enable the prime minister’s Brexit deal to be ratified in time for the UK to leave with an agreement on 31 October.

Under the provisions of the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act (CRAG), an international treaty – such as the Brexit deal – must be laid before Parliament for at least 21 sitting days before ratification to take place.

However, in order for the government’s timetable to be met, there is a provision in the WAB which “disapplies” the relevant section of the CRAG.


Quote:
The government has been accused of trying to ram through its Brexit deal this evening.

The EU withdrawal agreement bill has just been introduced for its first reading and MPs will be debating it tomorrow. After the bill’s introduction, the Independent Group for Change MP, Chris Leslie, told MPs:

We know, for example, that Commons committee stage of the Treaty of Rome was not three days, or two days, it was 22 days. For the Maastricht Treaty, 23 days in committee stage. The Treaty of Lisbon: 11 days. Treaty of Amsterdam: five days. Then the Single European Act four days and then the smallest of them all the Treaty of Nice three days at committee. So, in total, five days of Commons consideration for the Treaty of Nice to be reformed.

So, this is an unprecedentedly short period of time to dedicate to a massive and momentous piece of legislation. And, personally Mr Speaker, I am very worried that this motion that we are now debating, (is) the first in a series of attempts by the government to stage what is essentially the ramming through of a piece of legislation, in I regard a disorderly way.
Source as above
0 Replies
 
eurocelticyankee
 
  2  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 02:05 pm
Didn't like the way the Brexiteers turned on Bercow, flat out accusing him of favouring the remainers. I don't think he did, considering what he's had to deal with i thought he's been as fair as possible. He'll be a big loss when he departs on the 31st, the place will be boring without him.

I notice as well the language from the Brexiteers, it's so Trumpian, full of hate and name calling. I was watching one Brexiteer being interviewed on Sky news today and she was scathing of anybody who wouldn't support the deal, pathetic, cowards, traitors and so on.

So sick of it all.

0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 21 Oct, 2019 11:47 pm
There's still a little chance of "getting Brexit done", as Johnson puts it, by 31 October:
- if Johnson wins the vote on his bill known as the second reading today, as expected,
- if there's no defeat on the so-called "programme motion" setting out the timetable to get the bill through. (This is doubtful.)
 

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