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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 05:09 am
@Olivier5,
Furious Conservative Party members are cutting up their membership cards after Theresa May asked Jeremy Corbyn to help her secure a Brexit deal that can get through Parliament, and a video emerged via social media that showed members of the parachute regiment firing at a poster of Jeremy Corbyn at a target range in Kabul ...
Olivier5
 
  2  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 05:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Rolling Eyes

Reaching out to Corbyn is the best thing May ever did. She should have done so years ago.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 06:29 am
@Olivier5,
An interesting question from question came from the SNP’s Stewart Hosie during this morning's PM Question Time.He asked May:
After two years of Brexit deadlock, intransigence and a seven-hour cabinet meeting, the best the prime minister can do is invite the leader of the British Labour party to become the co-owner of her Brexit failure. Let me ask her, had she been the leader of the opposition, and invited into a trap like this, would she have been foolish enough to accept?
He did not get a proper answer.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 06:33 am
@Walter Hinteler,
An opinion by John Lichfield, more an analysas:

Could Macron knock Britain out of the EU next week?
Quote:
France’s president may threaten ‘le Brexit dur’ to rid Europe of a troublesome UK – but he also wants to avoid another domestic backlash

Brexit has been blocked by the most head-banging of Brexiteers. Leavers are now hoping for a sweet paradox of their own. They are looking to President Emmanuel Macron, a remainer super-hero, to boot Britain out of the European Union next week.

Recent remarks made by the French president suggested that he might summon the spirit of Charles de Gaulle (vintage 1963 and 1967) and veto – come what May – extended British membership of the EU at the Brussels summit on 10 April.

Will he? Before a meeting with Irish taoiseach Leo Varadkar, on the steps of the Élysée Palace on Tuesday, Macron blew hot and cold. “Should the United Kingdom be unable … to propose a solution backed by a majority, they will de facto have chosen themselves to leave without a deal,” he said. “We cannot avoid failure for them.”

Le Brexit dur, then? No, not really. Macron went on to say that “credible justifications” for an article 50 extension did exist. They might include an election, another referendum or softer proposals for Britain’s future relationship with the EU. He and other EU leaders would be “open” to clear ideas if Theresa May would only put them forward at the emergency summit in Brussels next Wednesday.

Has Macron changed his mind? More likely he has changed his public tone, under pressure from Berlin and Dublin. It was never likely that the French president would defy the other 26 capitals and block an article 50 extension on his own. He remains, nonetheless, the leader of the impatient camp within the EU27.

May’s new plan – to seek a short delay until 22 May to push through a hybrid Labour-Tory Brexit – both simplifies and complicates life for Macron and the others. If she has a deal by 10 April, the short extension to 22 May will be signed off easily. If there is no internal UK deal, there will be huge reluctance to declare a no-deal Brexit, but also huge reluctance to extend the Brexit psychodrama.

In resolving this conundrum, Macron will play a pivotal role. He, like many other leaders, is opposed to giving May a blank cheque to find a solution in the next seven weeks. That may lead to Britain crashing out of the EU on the day before the European elections.

Other leaders could offer a longer delay, in return for a British commitment to organise European elections, and refrain from messing up EU decisions on a new commission president and a new five-year budget plan. Macron is viscerally doubtful about any such rollover – even though he has reasons of his own to fear a hard Brexit.
... ... ...
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 07:50 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I don't know that Macron will find the guts to do that. If he does, the Brits are going to whine forever that the frogs betrayed them again and kicked them out of the EU... and he will have to shoulder some responsibility for a no-deal brexit and the mayhem that follows.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 08:13 am
@Olivier5,
Meanwhile, Juncker said the UK will face either a no-deal or along extension if the deal is not passed by next Friday.

Press-release with full speech
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 08:17 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Tweets from Newsnight’s Nicholas Watt

https://i.imgur.com/zzPP2D2l.jpg
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 09:19 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

When you think of it, the current efforts to build a consensus over Brexit options among politicoes should have happened 2 years ago, before negotiating with the rest of the EU. But instead, it was party politics as usual. Their political system needs to raise to the challenge. Less gesticulation, more articulation.
I agree, and believe that recent events confirm the truth of this. One could also add that things would likely have been better now had there been a consensus and referendum when the UK entered the EU (or the EEC as it was at the time).

Olivier5 wrote:
The Brits don't need more grandiose, tragic xenophobia. It's exactly the kind of sentiment that led them to the edge of the cliff. Give them Adam Smith, not Shakespeare.
Both perspectives are needed, as other ongoing conflicts within the EU amply confirm.

I still don't understand all the rather vitriolic political arguments in Britain over the virtues (or lack thereof) of various Brexit deals (over which they have only partial control) and the apparent (as far as I can see) absence of any action on the leave/remain question. It seems to be a strange combination.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 09:39 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
One could also add that things would likely have been better now had there been a consensus and referendum when the UK entered the EU (or the EEC as it was at the time).
In the 1975 United Kingdom European Communities membership referendum 67.23% voted to stay in the EEC. (National turnout of 64%.)
georgeob1
 
  0  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 09:40 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I had forgotten about that. Thanks.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 10:05 am
@georgeob1,
SNP, Lib Dems, Independent Group, Plaid Cymru and Greens unite to demand second referendum.


The joint statement released by Ian Blackford, the SNP’s Westminster leader, Sir Vince Cable, the Lib Dem leader, Chuka Umunna, the Independent Group spokesperson, Liz Saville Roberts, Plaid Cymru’s Westminster leader, and the Green MP Caroline Lucas:
Quote:
The UK is in the midst of a Brexit crisis led by a government dictated by incompetence.

Given everything we now know - and the detrimental impact Brexit will have on the UK’s economy, job opportunities and people’s livelihoods, the priority must be bringing the issue back to the people in a people’s vote – with the option to remain on the ballot paper.

We are in agreement that there is no such thing as a good Brexit and that people across the UK face being worse off.

We have shown over the past three years we are willing to find a compromise position to end the impasse.

Time is fast running out and any compromise that is reached must be brought back to the people through a fresh referendum, and keep the option to revoke article 50 on the table to avoid a no-deal Brexit.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 12:00 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Shortly, parliament will vote on the Cooper bill - which seeks to enshrine in law that Theresa May has to ask Brussels for a longer extension instead of crashing out without a deal if no withdrawal deal is passed by April 12.

A passing of this vote would spell the end of the no-deal Brexit dream many Leavers still hold onto, but it is expected to be another tight one that could be decided by just a handful of votes or abstentions - the motion to move the bill passed by just a single vote earlier at 312:311.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 12:09 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Corbyn has written to Labour MPs to update them about the "constructive exploratory discussions" he had with the PM earlier

Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/xFBI8s3.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 12:30 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
MPs have voted in favour of the Cooper bill with a majority of five votes.

Ayes: 315, Noes: 310.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 12:36 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The Cooper bill will now go on to Committe stage, with more votes scheduled for 10pm.

If the vote passes, no-deal is off the table, provided the EU would agree to grant a long extension if no deal is passed in parliament by April 12.
Until then, preparations for no-deal remain in full swing.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 12:58 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I still don't understand all the rather vitriolic political arguments in Britain over the virtues (or lack thereof) of various Brexit deals (over which they have only partial control) and the apparent (as far as I can see) absence of any action on the leave/remain question. It seems to be a strange combination.

I think this is simply because most UK politicians agree that the referendum is binding. Therefore, if none of them can argue to simply ignore the vote and remain, it follows that they will focus their arguement on what kind of Brexit they want, how hard, how fast, etc., given that a very soft Brexit (eg a custom union) = almost no Brexit at all.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 01:24 pm
@Olivier5,
That makes some sense. However the referendum was fairly close and I'm surprised that there is no push for a repeat.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 01:24 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
I think this is simply because most UK politicians agree that the referendum is binding.
Actually, parliament is sovereign and referendums are generally not binding in the UK. (At least not in a legal and constitutional sense.)

The exception was the 2011 referendum on changing the electoral system to alternative vote, where the relevant legislation obligated the government to change the law to reflect a “yes” vote had that occurred.
The European Union Referendum Act 2015 – the law that allowed the referendum to take place – didn’t specify what would happen in the event of a vote to leave.

The House of Lords Constitution Committee explained in a 2010 report why that’s the case. It said "because of the sovereignty of Parliament, referendums cannot be legally binding in the UK, and are therefore advisory". (Source)

However, political reality is very different. The above sourced House of Lords report that said referendums were not legally binding, the committee concluded that "it would be difficult for Parliament to ignore a decisive expression of public opinion".

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 01:36 pm
Tonight, Tory Brexiteers are utterly furious with May, and Labour is discussing, if the party will be finished by a People’s Vote ...
(On various twitter accounts it's really not amusing for both parties.)
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 02:06 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Liam Fox's ministry faces more criticism for lack of Brexit readiness
Quote:
Liam Fox’s international trade department has faced further criticism for its lack of Brexit readiness after it emerged that the creation of the watchdog tasked with protecting UK companies from unfair global trading practices was behind schedule.

The government said on Wednesday that the Trade Remedies Authority (TRA) would not be established in time for a no-deal Brexit.

The organisation exists in shadow form only, as a part of the Department for International Trade, and is without a chairman after the person designated unexpectedly quit last week for personal reasons.

Answering the questions from the Commons trade committee on its plans to cope with a no-deal Brexit, George Hollingbery, a trade minister, said there was a team of staff ready to protect British companies’ interests, even in a no-deal scenario.

“They are up, they are running. The part of the department is fulfilling the job that the TRA would fulfil.”

However, he said: “We would much rather that this was the arms-length body we would wish to see in place.”
... ... ...
0 Replies
 
 

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