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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 11:45 am
@Walter Hinteler,
https://i.imgur.com/YkFLdpn.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 12:19 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Something ... well not really funny at all:
In a leaked document, the Department for Transport admits it has not engaged with French port operators but has used satellite imagery to make "untested" assumptions for its no-deal Brexit plans for Portsmouth.

BBC: Government did not speak to French ports in no-deal plan
Quote:
The document, called "EU Exit No Deal Planning: Portsmouth Port Analysis", makes an official assumption that French ports would have capacity to hold vehicles - that have sailed from the Hampshire port - while they are waiting to be checked by customs.

"Our assessment is based on satellite imagery and conversations with Border Force South of the port layouts," it states.

"We have not engaged with French port operators or the ferry companies sailing to these ports so these assumptions are untested."

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 12:33 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Meanwhile, Corbyn has said he is "very happy" to meet Theresa May,
after she offered to sit down with him to agree a plan which allows the UK to
leave the EU with a deal.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 01:34 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Overal it looks like they are in denial of their own Brexit. Transfixed, overwhelmed, not processing things anymore, catatonic, like in these nightmares where some mortal threat is coming at you and yet you can't move.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 01:48 pm
@Olivier5,
The - mostly Conservative - MPs are changing their minds (the MP in my friend's constituency for instance from Remain to Leave, then against the Prime Minister’s Leave Deal, then for the Prime Minister’s deal and finally for the withdrawal agreement part of the Prime Minister’s deal.
But they deny the voters a chance to express their opinion on any final Brexit deal.
MP's are not alone in changing opinion.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 02:14 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
What I don't get is Labour voting against the deal.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 02:19 pm
@Olivier5,
I find it hard to understand why, amidst all the furor over potential exit deals and the usual party rivalries, there appears to be no organized opposition to Brexit itself. I'm not a close follower of the political process in the UK, and may well be wrong. However mystifies me.
Lash
 
  -1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 02:41 pm
This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
2This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
3This other Eden, demi-paradise,
4This fortress built by Nature for her self
5Against infection and the hand of war,
6This happy breed of men, this little world,
7This precious stone set in a silver sea
8Which serves it in the office of a wall
9Or as a moat defensive to a house,
10Against the envy of less happier lands,
11This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 09:55 pm
@georgeob1,
Well, there is the Scotland government... but at the national level, an organized front against Brexit would need to transcend party lines since there are leavers and remainers in both Labour and the Tories. Now, UK politics are quite adverserial. Traditionally, one party governs and the other opposes.

When you think of it, the current efforts to build a consensus over Brexit options among politicoes should have happened 2 years ago, before negotiating with the rest of the EU. But instead, it was party politics as usual. Their political system needs to raise to the challenge. Less gesticulation, more articulation.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 10:01 pm
@Lash,
The Brits don't need more grandiose, tragic xenophobia. It's exactly the kind of sentiment that led them to the edge of the cliff. Give them Adam Smith, not Shakespeare.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 10:36 pm
@Olivier5,
You've the remainers, who were kind of organised before the referendum.
Now, the Remain Party has been founded. (Will be a small party, short living, in my opinion.)
(The Independent Group is ... I'm not sure.)

But it's really because you find Remainers and Brexiters in all but one (DUP) parliament parties that's there no strong organised opposition.

May's new Brexit policy "then I do it just with Jeremy" will split the Conservatives. And get more even turmoil within Labour than they already got.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 10:56 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I really like the opinion by Friedman in the NYT: The United Kingdom Has Gone Mad
Friedman in NYT wrote:
The problem with holding out for a perfect Brexit plan is that you can’t fix stupid.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 12:38 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes, I agree.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 01:34 am
@Olivier5,
I expected to hear similar from you.

They don’t need to put Shakespeare away. They’ve survived and prospered through much worse than this, have a rich, strong history, and my good wishes.

This threat is fabricated from a union of countries who want to punish them for not bending the knee. Several countries chose not to acquiesce and they deal fine with the EU.

The full weight of that unraveling power is being used as a cudgel against England to try to dissuade others from breaking away.

Autonomy is vastly underrated. In my humble opinion...
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 02:10 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Several countries chose not to acquiesce and they deal fine with the EU.
The UK is still a member of the EU. The European Union (EU) the political and economic union of 28 member states, which the UK is planning to leave.

Theresa May has agreed a deal with the EU on the terms of the UK's departure ("Withdrawal Agreement"). It does not determine the UK-EU future relationship. It does include how much money the UK must pay to the EU as a settlement, details of the transition period, and citizens' rights. It also covers the so-called "backstop", which ensures that no hard border exists between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland after Brexit even if there's no deal on the future relationship in place by the end of the transition period.

Brexit is due to happen on 12 April, but who knows?
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 02:42 am
@Lash,
LOL. You cannot mention any single way in which the EU is "punishing" the UK. That's a lie. They decided to leave, and the rest of us are trying to accommodate their wish the best we can.

Their history is precisely what kills them right now, or more precisely, their historiography: the way they represent their own history to themselves in a self-serving, self-aggrandizing way. It's important to realize that going beyond petty nationalism is a big part of the EU project. Learning to live with your neighbors, to respect them, and to become less naive about your own role in history, so as to avoid war. The Brits never understood that.

When I first came here, I was subjected to a barrage of oh-so-funny English videos mocking the French, courtesy of Izzy. I wondered where that came from... The French have zero comedy about their neighbors. It'd be seen as untoward, not friendly, and nasty to produce so many comedies about, say, how the Germans or the Italians are so damn stupid... Would US TV channels show comedy pocking fun at Mexicans or Canadians? I doubt it.

But it's par for the course for the Brits, Same with their tabloids, always chock-full of French bashing. They have this big inferiority-cum-superiority complex about the French, and as it turned out about other nations as well. E.g. with the Irish, the contempt displayed by some UK politicians during the past year was simply amazing.

This obsolete anti-European xenophobia led them to that cliff they are now facing. Let's see if they jump, of if they decide to learn some humility and realism instead. Whatever they do, it's gona be their call... But they'll blame the EU for the consequences, no doubt, and so will you.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 02:58 am
@Olivier5,
Leaving the EU, the Customs Union, the Single Market, the jurisdiction of the ECJ, having no hard border in Ireland, no border at all in the Irish Sea all at the same time has proven to be impossible.

If someone had read what the EU means, all this could have been avoided.
Especially, if the entire Brexit choice was presented to the public in 2016 with utterly misleading simplicity. And hadn't been sold with a pack of lies about both the size of the benefits and the ease of implementation as the basic knowledge for the referendum.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 03:29 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I agree that the leave campaign was a pack of lies, but then that often happens in political campaigns. What bugs me is how the UK political system dealt with the whole issue. Unrealistic, unprofessional, narrow-minded, full of noise and posturing... Where's their regard for the public good, for the needs of the country they are supposed to represent?

I already knew that the ultra-brexiters a la Boris Johnson were cretins, but Labour voting against the deal is beyond reckless in my view. Was that just because Corbyn wants May to fail so that he can be PM? Really??? You gonna throw your country's economy and security under the bus so that you can become your country's next PM? Wow...
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 04:16 am
@Olivier5,
re Labour: it's more the (usual) fight within a left party, about leadership, doctrines, personal preferences/political aims ...
Besides that, Labour traditionally isn't really pro-EU. (An acquaintance was the Chair of Labour Movement for Europe.)
Olivier5
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 04:44 am
@Walter Hinteler,
They can be as anti-EU as they want, but this deal is in the best interest of the UK...
 

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