47
   

Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 23 Mar, 2019 02:20 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
for voting with paper ballots that can be counted and recounted; for face-to-face conversation, and for marching rather than online petitioning

Yes.

You guys have paper balots in Germany, right?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 23 Mar, 2019 02:51 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

You guys have paper balots in Germany, right?
Sure.

According to the decision of the Federal Constitutional Court, the voting machines which were still used at the 2005 Bundestag election do not fulfil the Basic Law’s requirements for the use of electronic voting machines. (Judgement of 3 March 2009 [file references: 2 BvC 3/07 and 2 BvC 4/07])

Although there is no fundamental constitutional ban on voting computers, I've counted the votes for decades. (Referendums are fast done, European elections not so - both are usually boring hours because of the low turnout.)
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 23 Mar, 2019 03:29 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Never trust a machine with your vote.

To my great shame I've helped count votes only once. I was on my own in Paris with nothing else to do, decades ago. It was a legislative election, and the counting was slow indeed - like 3 hours in total - but i kinda liked it, a bit like a communal bingo game but more solemn.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 25 Mar, 2019 02:08 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Theresa May told Brexit-supporting lawmakers on Sunday that she would quit if they voted for her twice-defeated European Union divorce deal, ITV news said.

“I am reliably told that Theresa May told Boris Johnson, Iain Duncan Smith, Steve Baker, Jacob Rees-Mogg, David Davis et al at Chequers that she will quit if they vote for her deal, including the backstop they hate,” ITV political editor Robert Peston wrote.

“But she gave no specifics. So there is not a lot of trust she would actually quit,” Peston wrote.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-may-future/uk-pm-may-told-brexiteers-shell-quit-if-they-vote-for-her-deal-itv-idUSKCN1R60NQ?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews wrote:
Reuters
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 25 Mar, 2019 07:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Key points from today's Downing Street lobby briefing (Copied from both the Independent's and the Guardian's blog):

- Number 10 refused to say when the next meaningful vote on Theresa May’s deal would be held. The prime minister’s spokesman said it remained the case "that we will only bring the vote back if we believe that we are in a position to win it",

- The spokesman said that the Letwin amendment being debated tonight would unbalance the constitution. Asked what the PM thought of the move, the spokesman said: She has said that tying the government’s hands in this way by seeking to commandeer the order paper would have far-reaching implications for the way that the UK is governed and the balance of powers and responsibilities in our democratic institutions.

- Ministers did not urge May to consider offering to resign at this morning’s cabinet, the spokesman said. Yesterday one report claimed that 11 cabinet ministers wanted May to make way for another leader and that “the plotters” were planning “to confront May at a cabinet meeting” today. Today the spokesman would not comment on suggestions that her critics did not have the courage of her convictions.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 25 Mar, 2019 11:26 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
MPs seize control of Brexit process by backing indicative votes amendment
Quote:
MPs have inflicted a fresh humiliating defeat on Theresa May, voting to seize control of the parliamentary timetable to allow backbenchers to hold a series of votes on alternatives to her Brexit deal.

An amendment tabled by former Tory minister Oliver Letwin passed, by 329 votes to 302 on Monday night, as MPs expressed their exasperation at the government’s failure to set out a fresh approach.

The prime minister had earlier declined to say whether she would abide by the outcome of a process of “indicative votes”.

The government issued a punchy statement after the amendment passed, warning that it “upends the balance between our democratic institutions and sets a dangerous, unpredictable precedent for the future”.

Three ministers resigned from government in order to back the Letwin amendment: the foreign affairs minister, Alistair Burt, the health minister Steve Brine and the business minister Richard Harrington. A total of 29 Tory MPs rebelled to vote for the amendment.
... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 26 Mar, 2019 08:52 am
@Walter Hinteler,
https://i.imgur.com/Nmbkato.jpg

The Guardian: Just 7% of UK public think government has handled Brexit well – study
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 26 Mar, 2019 10:00 am
@Walter Hinteler,
7%? That's not yet within the margin of error, but close!
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 27 Mar, 2019 06:54 am
@Olivier5,
While the debate in Parliament, including the indicative votes debate as MPs choose from wide range of Brexit options, ist going on, here some even more outlandish about Brexit:

[url]Nigel Farage has likened Theresa May’s Brexit withdrawal agreement to the Treaty of Versailles after the First World War, claiming it represents a “betrayal”.

The former Ukip leader claimed the financial settlement was similar to the reparations imposed in Germany and that the inclusion of Northern Ireland in an EU customs area was like the annexation of Alsace-Lorraine.

The post-WWI treaty was key in Adolf Hitler’s early rise to power and was central to the right-wing “stab in the back” myth that Germany was sold out by its civilian leaders.

“We're witnessing a slow- motion betrayal – perhaps the greatest betrayal of any democratic vote in the history of our nation. The reason is of course this withdrawal treaty,” Mr Farage said in a speech in the European Parliament.

“I'll go back to the First World War: we won the war but we had the treaty of Versailles. We have a reparations bill of 39 billion we have to pay, but nothing in return.

“We have the annexation of a part of our national territory in the shape of Northern Ireland. This treaty is a bad peace, it is unacceptable, it is not Brexit, and it will not pass.”

In fact, the financial settlement or so-called “divorce bill” represents commitments already made by the UK government to fund projects and pensions of its own civil servants.

Under the final withdrawal agreement plan Northern Ireland would be in the same customs union as the UK, but would have to follow some single market rules.

The eurosceptic politician was publicly mocked on Wednesday morning by European Parliament Brexit chief Guy Verhofstadt over his failed Brexit protest march – which he abandoned, despite grand plans to walk across the UK.

“Mr Farage is here - this is a surprise to me because I though the was marching somewhere in Britain, a 200 miles march? But he is here? How many miles have you done, two miles, something like that?” the Belgian MEP said.

“You remind me more and more, I don't know if you know him, of Field Marshall Hague in Black Adder. You know? Sitting in the first World War in his office in London and you're sitting here in Strasbourg while your own people are marching through the rain and the cold. That is the way you're taking your responsibility.”

Mr Farage quit Ukip in December amid a party meltdown over its links with far-right figure Tommy Robinson.

His new Brexit Party is polling around five per cent and has also been rocked by a series of racism scandals, including the resignation of its leader, who shared messages that referred to “white genocide”.[/url]The Independent
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 27 Mar, 2019 07:20 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I shouldn't post from my mobile: didn't quote the copied text above correctly.

--------

Meanwhile, it seems even more possible as if May could be about to 'ride off into the sunset' this evening - speculation that she is not planning to stay in office for long are published from all sides,not from No 10, of course not:
PM May is totally focused on the job at hand and will remain so, her spokesman said, as rumours swirled that she would set out a timetable for her departure to her Conservative lawmakers later on Wednesday.
The spokesman also said the government would only bring back her twice-defeated Brexit deal for a vote in parliament when there is a realistic prospect of success.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 27 Mar, 2019 09:24 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Theresa May could be quite close to announcing her resignation as PM. But, according to some new Ipsos MORI polling, she is still seen as having what it takes to be a good prime minister than all of her most obvious rivals.

https://i.imgur.com/qvMQn95.jpg
Ipsos MORI: Support for May falls again, but she is still seen as more Prime Ministerial than alternatives
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 27 Mar, 2019 09:25 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Theresa May has lost again. Her attempt to defeat the business motion failed, and it was passed by 331 votes to 287.
John Bercow, the Speaker, says he is putting eight amendments to a vote.
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Wed 27 Mar, 2019 09:38 am
@Walter Hinteler,
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 27 Mar, 2019 10:30 am
Meanwhile, the Speaker restated his ruling that he will only allow a new vote on the Brexit deal if it has changed significantly.
He said he will block any attempt by the government to use a procedural rule change to get round his decision.

This was new, and unexpected. It has probably reduced the chances of the meaningful vote being brought back this week (MV3), and it makes the chance of MV3 never happening a distinct possibility.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 27 Mar, 2019 10:32 am
@Walter Hinteler,
According to government sources, as tweeted by some journalists, the only realistic way to circumvent John Bercow’s ruling on meaningful vote is to incorporate it into Withdrawal Bill (the one implementing Brexit deal). So second reading of that bill would effectively be the meaningful vote.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 27 Mar, 2019 10:39 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The Norway option ....
.... Iceland says UK would have to accept free movement of labour, while Norway wants to avoid stirring Brexit hornets’ nest


Efta countries wary of UK's interest in 'Norway' option
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 27 Mar, 2019 10:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
https://i.imgur.com/kp37wc4.png

A chart from Simon Usherwood from UK in a Changing Europe, an academic network, explaining the implications of the eight amendments for the EU.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 27 Mar, 2019 10:46 am
@Walter Hinteler,
An analysis by The People's Voice, pdf, including the chart below

https://i.imgur.com/UvEnFpR.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 27 Mar, 2019 12:02 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
What May said to Tory MPs about resigning before next phase of Brexit talks
Downing Street has sent out extracts from what Theresa May said to Tory MPs at the Conservative backbencher 1922 Committee. (Via the Guardian's blog)
This has been a testing time for our country and our party. We’re nearly there. We’re almost ready to start a new chapter and build that brighter future.

But before we can do that, we have to finish the job in hand. As I say, I don’t tour the bars and engage in the gossip – but I do make time to speak to colleagues, and I have a great team in the whips’ office. I also have two excellent PPSs.

And I have heard very clearly the mood of the parliamentary party. I know there is a desire for a new approach – and new leadership – in the second phase of the Brexit negotiations – and I won’t stand in the way of that.

I know some people are worried that if you vote for the withdrawal agreement, I will take that as a mandate to rush on into phase two without the debate we need to have. I won’t – I hear what you are saying.

But we need to get the deal through and deliver Brexit ...

I am prepared to leave this job earlier than I intended in order to do what is right for our country and our party.

I ask everyone in this room to back the deal so we can complete our historic duty – to deliver on the decision of the British people and leave the European Union with a smooth and orderly exit.


0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Wed 27 Mar, 2019 01:05 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
How is this supposed to be an incentive?
Theresa May Promises to Step Down if U.K. Parliament Backs Brexit Plan
 

Related Topics

THE BRITISH THREAD II - Discussion by jespah
FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION - Discussion by Mapleleaf
The United Kingdom's bye bye to Europe - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
Sinti and Roma: History repeating - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
[B]THE RED ROSE COUNTY[/B] - Discussion by Mathos
Leaving today for Europe - Discussion by cicerone imposter
So you think you know Europe? - Discussion by nimh
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 05/04/2024 at 10:10:32